Technically communism should be a moneyless, stateless society. No government to give taxes to. No corporations to take your money. No money to take. No one to force things. It’s all for the people by the people. The idea that you’re pointing to communism as force in order to defend your decision to vote republican on an article about pedophelia is pretty telling. This is why some people assume libertarians want to fuck kids.
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Dissasterix@lemmy.world 1 year agoEh, I see how you got there but I dunno about that. In my terms, a Communist (far left) State redistributes all wealth (~100% tax) and in a Minarchist system (far right) there is virtually no tax because there is virtually no State to fund. Thus no reason to employ force to gain said funding. The game theory is clear either way; A small State can only inflict small tyranny. A (mid to) large State typically has a war-machine.
I am more Right-skewed than typical Conservatives. I identify as Libertarian, but the LP itself is/was a mess. Mises Caucus seems legit tho. I believe that the State has limited rightful duties. As enumerated in the Constitution, the feds only need power to 1)Make and maintain currency shit (shit job), 2) Enforce or sovereignty (shit job), and 3) Enforce and promote popular law (shit job). But they want to do everything else…
Do you think your taxes are well spent? I know you dont, lmfao. If they reallocate spending then maybe I’d be cool with (some) taxes. Here and now, no. Im being misrepresented and it’s tantamount to theft. The problem isnt lack of funding, its more a lack of budgeting and prioritizing the wrong stuff. Making another committee or council only worsens the issue. They must be starved.
HipHoboHarold@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Dissasterix@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Same questions as to the other commenter:
If my [labor] is the peoples’ labor, what recorsue do the people have if I want to horde? Force. What if Im a [widget] maker and the people want [widget]… What happens if Im done from making [widget] and the people still need [widget]? The dynamic of owing the
Statecommunity for yourforcedlabor is pretty… Statist sounding to me.We can talk about theory until we all feel gooey, but it just doesnt seem to go that way. I know, I know. The meme, it’s never been tried, lol.
People doing bad things IS a facet to freedom. People do bad stuff. Do you think selfish animal nature can be regulated away with enough tax? Maybe, but gosh you’ll need a big
communityState.irmoz@reddthat.com 1 year ago
If my [labor] is the peoples’ labor, what recorsue do the people have if I want to horde? Force.
There are just so many mistaken assumptions to correct before I can even touch this question. Let me make an analogy:
If I want to drive my car, what do I do if my driving license is suddenly Korean?
To answer this question, I have to take for granted driving licenses can spontaneously change which country they are from. This is absurd, and I hope you can agree that I don’t need to answer what would happen in that case.
Similarly, it is absurd for you to want to hoard in a communist society. With free access to social goods, they will always be there when you want them. What is the point in hoarding?
What if Im a [widget] maker and the people want [widget]… What happens if Im done from making [widget] and the people still need [widget]?
Someone else makes widgets…? Why would you be the only person in the world making these things? If it’s a good people really want or need, surely you’d teach others how to make them?
The dynamic of owing the State community for your forced labor is pretty… Statist sounding to me.
That’s not how it works.
Dissasterix@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Okay, so what happens when I dont work but want the peoples’ stuff? Just as you hid your true colors, you are obfuscating all the forseeable places where force WILL be applied. It will be applied somewhere. Maybe it’ll just be me. Should dissidents like me get the bullet? Why not?!
There is a lot of hand-waving here. Like how great things can be. And all I see is Holodimur and One-child policies. Large spying governments with huge militaries taking land from farmers, always followed by famine. But I know, its all really chill on paper. Slick academics make it sound sexy, sure. And Im sure this time we’ll find those chill sociopaths to put at the reigns of power, lol.
You can try to explain it to me, I guess, but this sounds like the most statist worldview imaginable. You’re using an analogy about drivers licenses to a libertarian. Fuck a drivers license. Its just a regulatory device to attach fines to a person. The identification card is not for you, its for them!
HipHoboHarold@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Well if we want to take the idea of forcing to really anything, then you still want a government, which means rules, which means you are also in favor of forcing. You just want a government run by people volunteer their free time.
And if you want to learn some of the more intricate workings of communism, you can do research. But yes, everyone who can work still does work. Just as your system forces you to work or starve and live on the street.
Turns out every side has somethings that get forced and other things that don’t, because the world isn’t exactly a binary as you suggest. Even the concept of left and right has been broken down more into a square called the political compass. And some even argue you could add another axis for social issues. But at the end of the day, communism would allow freedoms in certain areas, such as it being a stateless society, while yours would mean you get to keep the money and not pay taxes.
And then you show at the end you aren’t even here for a conversation. I never said I was a communist, and I mentioned how communism doesn’t have taxes, and yet you still use it as a come back.
Maybe learn something about these theories before you spout off about them.
Dissasterix@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Im with you 100% that the existence of a State implies force. I consider myself a Libertarian, as I believe that you can have a good State. But a good State will invariably be a small state. A small state will obviously have less time/resources to do bad stuff. As outlined in the US constitution there are only 3 duties for the federal govt. Yet we find ouselves in a position where half the nation is terrified about what geriatric sits behind what desk. This a symptom of too much top-down unilateral power.
Its also true that I can starve if I do not earn my way. However, employment is voluntary. And I will not be exiled if I want to take time off. Yet its not quite the famines seen by the Ukranians or Mao’s China. Hell, even Deng (Mao’s successor) used Capitalism to turn China into a powerhouse.
irmoz@reddthat.com 1 year ago
Dude, I’m sorry, but this just demonstrates a bizarre misunderstanding of the left and right spectrum, and a complete misunderstanding of communism.
The left-right dichotomy most certainly represents opposition or favour toward liberal capitalist democratic states. Here’s a rough outline.
Dissasterix@lemmy.world 1 year ago
irmoz@reddthat.com 1 year ago
No, we just won’t get anywhere until we get past the foundations.
I don’t believe in horseshoe theory and it still makes sense. Why shouldn’t this make sense?
This sounds like gibberish.
Yes, this is true. Capitalism, and liberalism (later neo-liberalism) inevitably leads to fascism.
Because everyone owns these things communally. There is no private property, and thus no need for money. There is also no state, so no need for a separated governmental apparatus. The people rule themselves on equal footing, with no class distinctions. And all is made and shared on the principle of “from each according to their ability, to each according to their need”.
You need to move past the cold war propaganda that told you communism means big government. Communism means no government.
Dissasterix@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Nah, Im good. I dont talk to people who show zero candor. Ive said a lot, and if you cant follow then-- tsk!
Answer at least the police use of force issue and if its good Ill probably reply. “Is it good that the State has a monopoly on force?”
Dissasterix@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Dissasterix@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I accidentally deleted my own comment :,]
Communism and fascism look almost indistinguishable when compared to minarchism. The ONLY way for that to be true is to ascribe to ‘horseshoe theory.’ I don’t. I think the game theory IS the Occam’s Razor: A small govt can only inflict small tyranny, and reciprocally.
Benito said that “Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power.” I believe this describes our so-called Neo-Libralism strikingly well… The US government is a rouge agent. They spy on us, they fight unconstitutional wars, they allow monopoly, they engage in obvious nepotism. The corruption is so deep its almost impossible to even begin. And its all funded by average joes tryna live a little life for themselves.
If I make [labor], how does it become the peoples’ [labor]? It gets redistributed. If you dont earn fiat but get to keep your [widget] and government redistributes your [widget] then you have ostensibly been taxed at n%. Where you are one person and the people are many, therefore n% is presumably quite high.