That is kinda a strange way to counter my point that he is definitionally a fascist. Are you saying that if enough people are fascist then the none of them are?
I am saying that the rhetoric that Kirk used fits the definition of fascist rhetoric. If everyone in the world meets that definition, then everyone in the world is fascist. That’s how definitions work.
You are saying the term ‘fascist’ as if it’s definitionally agreed upon and then implying that the entire right is fascist. If that’s the case then you would, definitionally, be the extremist because you think that normal people being normal is fascist. Half the country voted for Trump. Kirk believed in a constitutional republic and Presidential elections. He was also, due to being a Christian, positionally anti-LGBT but not antagonistic to them. This position is hardly something new. He welcomed them into his movement and has plenty of gay fans. He held classically right wing positions which some may find objectionable but nonetheless cling fervently to a liberal world order. Fascism is inherently anti-liberal.
I missed some of your points because I made bad assumptions and overlooked some things.
I’m not surprised that at some point in time he would say he was pro-liberal. But the positions he argued for were in support of fascism. He didn’t other just gay people. He othered Muslims. He has brought up the Jewish question. He is a fan of centralizing power. Not that centralizing a power by itself would be a strong indicator of fascism. You have to take a look at the big picture.
There are several statistical lies that he keeps repeating to maintain his position. Someone is popular and is well known as Kirk would surely have people able to quietly correct him on some of these things. Yet he keeps repeating them. The outcome of this rhetoric is to empower fascists. He very likely knew that.
Now I’m not saying he was rubbing together his hands and whispering to himself “good good”. I think he just followed the money.
He didn’t say he was liberal I’m saying he was inherently classically liberal because of his views on the constitution, individual rights etc. He believed in representative democracy (e.g. a republic).
Again I implore you for your definition of fascism.
“Othering” isn’t fascist. It just is. We are the society we are because we are not the society we aren’t. This is the case with any group. If not being cool with literally everything makes you a fascist then everyone is fascist. He’s right to question why we send so much money to Israel that’s just having a brain. I guess AOC is a fascist too because she is anti-genocide.
I don’t know what youre talking about in the last part but everyone lies with statistics all the time. If you found statistics to counter that statement you’d be lying. Lying is just another term for interpreting or spinning.
“Followed the money” if he was just doing what got him paid that doesn’t make him a fascist it makes him a grifter. A fascist is an ideologue with a very specific non-liberal worldview. He was an egalatarian that wanted to settle differences through debate. That is a far cry from someone marching around in jackboots looking for a victim.
I didn’t imply the entire right was fascist. I think a lot of them are. But I also think a lot of them aren’t. I also think some lefties are fascists. I think some liberals are fascists. I think some black people are fascist. I think some Jewish people are fascist. I think some Palestinians are fascist. Name a group of people, I guarantee you some percentage of them are fascist. It’s an easy ideology to fall into. It feels comfortable.
I’ll write this again in case you missed it the first time. Fascism has a definition. There are criteria to categorize. What is fascist’s behavior, What are fascist beliefs, what is fascist ideology.
You want so badly for me to be some crazy leftist who calls everyone a fascists without cause. But I’m sorry, I’m not. I’m intentionally calling Kirk a fascist. Because he meets the definition. I’m not saying it hatefully, I’m not saying it with emotion. It’s just 1+1=2. The sky is blue. The grass is green. Kirk is a fascist.
deaf_fish@midwest.social 5 days ago
That is kinda a strange way to counter my point that he is definitionally a fascist. Are you saying that if enough people are fascist then the none of them are?
I am saying that the rhetoric that Kirk used fits the definition of fascist rhetoric. If everyone in the world meets that definition, then everyone in the world is fascist. That’s how definitions work.
Manmoth@lemmy.ml 5 days ago
You are saying the term ‘fascist’ as if it’s definitionally agreed upon and then implying that the entire right is fascist. If that’s the case then you would, definitionally, be the extremist because you think that normal people being normal is fascist. Half the country voted for Trump. Kirk believed in a constitutional republic and Presidential elections. He was also, due to being a Christian, positionally anti-LGBT but not antagonistic to them. This position is hardly something new. He welcomed them into his movement and has plenty of gay fans. He held classically right wing positions which some may find objectionable but nonetheless cling fervently to a liberal world order. Fascism is inherently anti-liberal.
deaf_fish@midwest.social 5 days ago
I missed some of your points because I made bad assumptions and overlooked some things.
I’m not surprised that at some point in time he would say he was pro-liberal. But the positions he argued for were in support of fascism. He didn’t other just gay people. He othered Muslims. He has brought up the Jewish question. He is a fan of centralizing power. Not that centralizing a power by itself would be a strong indicator of fascism. You have to take a look at the big picture.
There are several statistical lies that he keeps repeating to maintain his position. Someone is popular and is well known as Kirk would surely have people able to quietly correct him on some of these things. Yet he keeps repeating them. The outcome of this rhetoric is to empower fascists. He very likely knew that.
Now I’m not saying he was rubbing together his hands and whispering to himself “good good”. I think he just followed the money.
Manmoth@lemmy.ml 5 days ago
He didn’t say he was liberal I’m saying he was inherently classically liberal because of his views on the constitution, individual rights etc. He believed in representative democracy (e.g. a republic).
Again I implore you for your definition of fascism.
“Othering” isn’t fascist. It just is. We are the society we are because we are not the society we aren’t. This is the case with any group. If not being cool with literally everything makes you a fascist then everyone is fascist. He’s right to question why we send so much money to Israel that’s just having a brain. I guess AOC is a fascist too because she is anti-genocide.
I don’t know what youre talking about in the last part but everyone lies with statistics all the time. If you found statistics to counter that statement you’d be lying. Lying is just another term for interpreting or spinning.
“Followed the money” if he was just doing what got him paid that doesn’t make him a fascist it makes him a grifter. A fascist is an ideologue with a very specific non-liberal worldview. He was an egalatarian that wanted to settle differences through debate. That is a far cry from someone marching around in jackboots looking for a victim.
deaf_fish@midwest.social 5 days ago
I didn’t imply the entire right was fascist. I think a lot of them are. But I also think a lot of them aren’t. I also think some lefties are fascists. I think some liberals are fascists. I think some black people are fascist. I think some Jewish people are fascist. I think some Palestinians are fascist. Name a group of people, I guarantee you some percentage of them are fascist. It’s an easy ideology to fall into. It feels comfortable.
I’ll write this again in case you missed it the first time. Fascism has a definition. There are criteria to categorize. What is fascist’s behavior, What are fascist beliefs, what is fascist ideology.
You want so badly for me to be some crazy leftist who calls everyone a fascists without cause. But I’m sorry, I’m not. I’m intentionally calling Kirk a fascist. Because he meets the definition. I’m not saying it hatefully, I’m not saying it with emotion. It’s just 1+1=2. The sky is blue. The grass is green. Kirk is a fascist.
Manmoth@lemmy.ml 5 days ago
What is the definition you are using?