Yeah, I totally get what you mean, I am kind of expecting that aswell, but at least I know, that other scouts groups in the area already have a nextcloud and it is actively beeing used, so I have some hopes in that regard. But yeah, getting them to use something like Matrix is probably pretty unrealistic.
hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 5 weeks ago
Given someone already pays for electricity and internet at the location, I'd say the cheapest option would be to ask all the members if someone has an old laptop to donate, maybe even with a broken display or whatever, main thing is it still somehow runs. Rip out the battery, Install Linux, Nextcloud (maybe Yunohost), and put it somewhere without public access.
My smaller VPS costs somewhere around 70€ a year, guess that could be worth it as well as long as it contributes something meaningful.
And be prepared to be disappointed, 99% of my scout group never used the selfhosted services I tried. I guess that's somehow okay. They were focused on the real life activities and no one had any interest to do office work or remember logins... Was always the same 2 people who did paperwork and they didn't need a cloud, so I scrapped it. Your story could be different, I'm not saying it needs to turn out that way.
BennyTheExplorer@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
AbidanYre@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
How is the other group doing it? Could you leverage any of what they’re using?
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 5 weeks ago
Could you pay them to host it for you?
hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 5 weeks ago
Good luck, though. I believe first-hand experience with living a self-determined life - including online services - aligns nicely with scout ideals. And trying to convey the media-literacy that allows people to make informed choices.
And I can see some benefits with having documents available to everyone, templates and collaborate on the paperwork...
Glad to hear other groups in the area have success with Nextcloud... Another idea would be to somehow unite and share the hosting bill for a slightly bigger Nextcloud... But I still think my old laptop idea might be promising... depending on the network situation in the building and whether you can make port forwards and all the things that need to be done.
atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
Since it’s a public instance you’d want to be sure to keep it pretty up-to-date with new system patches and the latest stable versions of Nextcloud. If you’re comfortable with automating updates with ansible, k8s, docker-compose, etc. then it’s not a big deal. If you’re ssh’ing to a server to manually update things then it’s going to be a lot of overhead and likely forgotten.
Old hardware may also bring its own issues and you’ll need backups especially since old hardware (especially consumer-grade stuff) can fail very unexpectedly. And providing support for users is a whole… other thing…
I like the idea of starting with the “old laptop in a basement” approach as a way to get things going to see if the service provides benefit then look to migrate to a more stable platform in the future.
BennyTheExplorer@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Yeah, I guess the plan would be (if we decide to use an old labtop) to have a similar backup system to my home server, so one daily incremental backup with something like borgbackup to a newly bought external hard drive and automated updates using watchtower (I heard major nextcloud upgrades can be tricky though, so I an not shure if it would be a good idea to automate those). I guess it would still suck if the laptop unexpectedly failed and we would have to scramble to find new hardware though, how long would you expect an old laptop to last as a server?
atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
Could last years? Or months? Depends on a lot of factors. Fans may not like running 24x7, memory could fail, etc.
u_tamtam@programming.dev 5 weeks ago
Don’t rip out the battery, that’s free UPS!
hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 5 weeks ago
Yes, but there's 2 sides to that story. It's a free UPS and that's really nice. But then I've seen old batteries degrade and swell. People call it the spicy pillow syndrome. And with two of my older devices, batteries got recalled by the manufacturer. So I'd advise against running these things 24/7 unattended. Either know what you're doing or rip it out before it burns down the building. As a minimum that includes a location made of concrete or bricks and mortar and no burnable stuff in the vicinity. And regular checks on the state of the battery.
dogs0n@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
Never heard of that, but I think the risk of a fire outweighs a “free” UPS. Good to know.
u_tamtam@programming.dev 5 weeks ago
I mean, a mechanical timer costs, like, 3 bucks in any currency and lets you set charge and discharge cycles. Add 10 bucks and you have one that you can pilot via REST API.
hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 5 weeks ago
I believe cycling and constantly discharging and charging a battery is even worse than letting the built-in charge controller do its job and keep the charge. I'm not an expert on battery chemistry, though. All I can say Thinkpads and other laptops have configurable thresholds for quite some time now. And despite me using that for the last 2 laptops, the batteries still go bad eventually. It's supposed to help, and batteries got better, but it's still a thing to factor in.
lka1988@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 weeks ago
The “old laptop” method is only feasible when it’s a personal service. You don’t want people (non-techie adults in leadership positions, especially) expecting AWS/MS/Google level of availability only for them to find out that a busted laptop (using “average people” terms) is the only thing that’s keeping their data in place. It’s not a good solution for a non-familial organization.
hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 5 weeks ago
Idk. Really depends on what you put there. And Nextcloud does file sync. Even if the server coughs up and becomes unavailable, you'd still have your directories and calendar on your devices. And creativity and problem-solving are core scout skills, so I guess bulding that thing for no money would be an interesting exercise in that. Though you're right. At some point you'll have to think about maintainability and reliability. I guess that wouldn't stop me from starting the project, but everyone has to decide for themselves.
lka1988@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 weeks ago
Having been involved with many youth groups as a kid, including BSA, a not-insignificant amount of the leaders were - for lack of better word - idiots.
hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 5 weeks ago
I don't think the BSA compare to the major German scouting associations. Different organization structure and substantially different ideology. But I suppose idiots are everywhere, at least that's my general life experience 😅