How many people do you think live in Oregon?
The majority of Oregonians live in Portland metro area.
A similar stat can be found regarding Seattle metro, and Washington has more blue cities than OR.
Comment on Good news. :)
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks agoThe problem… or complication with this…
Is that basically every part of WA and OR east of the Cascades will … counter-seceede.
Go look up the Greater Idaho project.
There is, and has been for a while now, an effort to … have the eastern counties of WA and OR leave their respective states and join Idaho.
From a legal/constitutional perspective… this is completely unprecedented, as best I can tell this has never before happened in US history, states redrawing their own borders, via counties which largely actually have democratically voted to do so via popular referendums.
Northern/Eastern CA will possibly form into something like the old attempts at the proposed state of ‘Jackson’.
There is an absolutely huge political polarization within all these states between urban and rural areas, roughly also by which side of the Cascades
I’ve hastily cropped that image from this source:
brilliantmaps.com/county-1992-v-2024/
So… yeah… if the governors of WA OR and CA formally seceeded and formed Cascadia? Came ‘too close’ to functionally doing that?
Well the rightwingers have an arguably legit legal counter move for that (or so they will argue, the whole point is different sides do not agree) and then basically the West Coast explodes into functionally a civil war of some kind, probably involving both partisan and ‘official’ state forces, and federal forces, roughly breaking apart along the Cascades, but it could easily be way more chaotic than that, depending on what say, forces at JBLM and Kitsap decide to do.
Let me personally tell you that Eastern WA/OR and Idaho still very, very much remember Ruby Ridge, the militia movement never died, it just went dormant till Trump, and uh, skipping up to present day, is now basically being formally recruited into ICE… ICE now has more funding than the United States Marine Corp.
Fucking yeehaw is what I very much fear would happen if either side makes significant moves toward anything resembling actual secession.
ronigami@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
So, for starters, I am describing people by where they live, not how many live where.
Yes, of course, many more people live in major urban areas than other wise.
But it is still true that by area, there are many areas in WA and OR that are very highly Republican… presumably you have noticed the dramatic cultural difference between two of such of those areas.
Again, go actually look into the Greater Idaho project, a lot of these people are very serious about … seceeding their counties from Dem dominant WA and OR state governments, to join ID’s Rep dominant government.
This is a concerted political campaign that has been going on for over a decade and has gotten quite a lot of popular support in those counties via county level referendums.
…
Further… the other point I am making is that the red areas are often quite extreme in their affinity for firearms.
It… does not take too many armed terrorists, militia cells, patriots, whatever you want to call them, to effectively terrorize or act as an insurgency in an area… especially if the official police are generally amenable to your movement… cops tend to be right wing authoritarians.
If you have ever lived in Portland or Seattle, I am sure you have observed the regular flooding in of non locals, from environs, whenever some kind major sport event, or public event occurs, or even just generally during work hours, good times to go shopping or clubbing or w/e.
Now just imagine that including some domestic terrorists.
…
This almost certainly would not play out as simply as the red and blue areas just… becoming their own nation states and then raising their own formal militaries to do battle with each other, where the red areas would lose simply by having less people or less industrial base.
No, civil wars, balkanization, sectarian violence, insurgency, occupation… is way way way more complicated than that.
Maybe go read up on how that went/is going in Iraq and Afghanistan or Syria or Ukraine… for some recently case studies on how complicated this can get.
redchert@lemmygrad.ml 3 weeks ago
Jackson
Lincoln, Jefferson or Liberty not jackson
pennomi@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Oh no doubt. Any kind of secession would be resolved with a civil war, and the final borders might not be recognizable.