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Why widespread? Well because it’s “punching up” and catchy and plays in to the traditional feminist narrative that women are oppressed in $WESTERN_COUNTRY particular in science even though women regularly outperform their male counterparts in terms of college grading and admissions. You’re basically asking why feminism is popular.

Wouldn’t it be natural that having existed as an idea for over 10 years I would have a preconceived notion of it?

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stevedice@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
Aaaaaand… there it is. Careful, your incel is showing.

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- ronigami@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
  Are all your comments that low-effort?
  
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  - stevedice@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
    Just when dealing with incels
    
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    ronigami@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
    And in your book incels can have sex, right, we can skip all the mental institution worthy nonsense
    
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Warl0k3@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
I’m circumspectly asking what you believe are the driving forces behind feminism’s popularity, absolutely. To carry your allusion, the first step in understanding any software is to check it’s dependencies; as natural languages just really messy formal languages, and by the transitive property of “I just made this up but it sounds good”, it holds that the first step to understanding someone’s statements is to examine the fundamental concepts they used to construct that statement.

To that end then, lets look at you holding some contempt for the idea of “punching up”. I doubt you intended that to be the takeaway, but it’s presented as the justification for an idea you have expressed strong disagreement to. If you held it was totally valid, there wouldn’t be much a conflict. So: why is it wrong to do in this case?

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- ronigami@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
  Why is it wrong to punch up? Because there being “up” requires an ordering of humans, so speaking in feminism terms that would be reinforcing the patriarchy, in regular terms people aren’t above or below each other, they’re all people. Punching up is still punching, is destructive and not constructive. Destruction isn’t becoming of anyone.
  
  To draw a specific example, the fact Taylor Swift is a billionaire doesn’t mean it’s okay to treat her like a piece of shit and insult her to her face, make up mean names for her, etc.
  
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  - Warl0k3@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
    Okay, I can work with this!
    
    So to my eye, a lack of social hierarchy seems like a pretty ideal view of the world. How do you reconcile that outlook with the existence of things like governments or a legal system? Those would be what I consider an ordering of humans, and in that light it sounds like you’re saying “punching back” (as it were) against those social structures would be reinforcing those potentially oppressive structures (‘the patriarchy’) - have I got that right?
    
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    ronigami@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
    It’s tempting to see authority as an ordering of humans, but it isn’t. Anthony Fauci is not more of a human than you are. And it’s not okay to punch Anthony Fauci for the same reason it’s not okay to punch you. But we still need authorities and so it can’t be the case that every person in the country is the authority on diseases.
    
    No, punching back is not the problem. The problem is the idea that there exists something called “punching up” that is more excusable generally than “punching down.” THAT idea reinforces social hierarchy and oppressive structures. Particularly if you believe that “punching up” will always be punching up, invariant of what happens in the world, because that asserts that the hierarchy is fixed which even further reinforces it.
    
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Electricd@lemmybefree.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
I was defending you then but I can’t anymore. No, it’s not because feminism boosts it, it’s because radical or extreme feminism and misandry loves to abuse this word

Feminism is good, but generalizing men or accusing of sexism without evidence is dumb sexism

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- ronigami@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
  It’s extremely unclear what you’re trying to say. When were you defending me?
  
  Is extreme feminism not considered feminism in your mind?
  
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  - Electricd@lemmybefree.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
    
    When were you defending me?
    
    Just by upvoting, I meant
    
    Is extreme feminism not considered feminism in your mind?
    
    No. Feminism is wanting to reach equality and stop discrimination between sex/genders. Extreme feminism is wanting women superiority, or attacking men to improve women’s situation
    
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    ronigami@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago
    OK, I’m just going to throw it out there that most people consider extreme feminists to be feminists.
    
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