Comment on Concealed Handguns Create a Climate of Fear, Gun Industry Research Reveals

• ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  We read a random sample of defensive gun use news reports for the Gun Violence Archive in 2019. We created a typology of 13 categories, including escalating arguments, drug-related, gang-like, romantic disputes, store robberies, unoccupied vehicle theft, unarmed burglaries, and home invasions. 

  See the more I read the more I question, they don’t seem to even understand the threshold for legal use of deadly force, most of these would be technically illegal, even for some where the defense itself was above board.

  If you’re the one escalating, that is illegal. Can’t legally have guns and drugs at the same time. Gang activity often involves crime while not being illegal itself. Romantic disputes would be legal if the partner immanently threatens your life, then good, otherwise illegal to use gun. Store robberies is above board, as long as they’re armed. Using deadly force to protect against unoccupied vehicle theft is illegal, against armed carjacking is legal. Unarmed burglaries would be illegal, you’re allowed to use normal force (mace or fists) not deadly force. Home invasions is legal, IF you’re in a state with castle doctrine, if you’re in a state with a Duty To Retreat law, you’re required to surrender the house if possible.

  Their methodology here, to include things that are straight up crimes as “defense,” is questionable. Furthermore they seem to be using the same methodology questioned in the Kleck and Lott numbers, phone surveys, but when they do it it’s ok:

  We analyzed data from a telephone survey of 5,800 California adolescents aged 12-17 years, which asked questions about gun threats against and self-defense gun use by these young people. 

  So we’ll just ignore that people 12-17 can’t legally buy nor carry a gun which would undeniably skew the numbers this way anyway (their parents can buy them one, they still can’t carry, and just how common do you think it is for parents to buy their kids guns?) The Kleck and Lott study’s voracity is called into question due to the self reported and unverifiable nature of the phone survey, basically “people could be lying.” Meanwhile 12-17yos always tell the truth? Horse hockey.

  Using data from a national random-digit-dial telephone survey conducted under the direction of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center, we investigated how and when guns are used in the home.  We found that guns in the home are used more often to frighten intimates than to thwart crime;

  And “intimates” never lie either.

  other weapons are far more commonly used against intruders than are guns.

  Only what like 45% of people even own guns? And of those that do a significant portion just have a shotgun in a safe for hunting. DUH, more people use “what they have.” Bet the guy defending himself with a baseball bat wouldn’t have turned his nose up at the AR15 beside it, given the opportunity.

  This study is no better than the Kleck and Lott study, and 60k is still more than “low.”

  source

  • Jiggle_Physics@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    So, if all of these reports are so bad, why believe the 60k number is reasonable?

    source

    • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      It’s the lowest we’ve got, so I’m using it to give you the “advantage” in your “low” argument, but it’s still not “low.”

      source

      • Jiggle_Physics@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        All of these reports use data from sources such as liars, and have built in factors that make it askew. So why believe any of it at all?

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