I used the Forbes article specifically because most will be from what you will call biased sources, but it’s an issue where both sides have their own narrative and looking at the data that one side has while discounting the other is gets you lies.
Comment on Concealed Handguns Create a Climate of Fear, Gun Industry Research Reveals
Tb0n3@sh.itjust.works 3 days ago
Maybe the people who should be afraid of concealed handguns are the criminals who might be shot by them. That’s the whole point. Defensive gun usage statistics are sparse whether due to people being scared to report what may be seen as a crime on their part, or it not being a tracked statistic in their jurisdiction.
Tb0n3@sh.itjust.works 3 days ago
SatansMaggotyCumFart@piefed.world 3 days ago
I know that you’re more likely to shoot friends or family with a defensive home gun then any home invaders.
Tb0n3@sh.itjust.works 2 days ago
Because you’re millions of times more likely to be interacting with family and friends than get broken into. One’s a daily occurrence. Also a lot of studies which claim gun ownership is more dangerous to gun owners are deliberately using suicides as part of their numbers.
SatansMaggotyCumFart@piefed.world 2 days ago
I don’t think you can suicide your friends and family.
PolarKraken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 days ago
This is accurate, and I used to make it a key part of my own decision-making, until I thought about how bad the - statistically - average American is, at almost everything. I hope I don’t need to cite references.
Ultimately it is, and should largely remain, a personal choice, and I’ll note that there are no statistics for the number of (thoughtful) people who believe they should own a gun, and come to realize they were wrong, before disaster. I’ve known several of these, among many gun owners, known no disasters.
Gun ownership isn’t for everyone. The broad truth of this statistic is important for each individual to know, but not a great rule of thumb for each individual to base an important decision on, if that makes sense.
Jiggle_Physics@sh.itjust.works 2 days ago
Unless you are in a position where you are aware something worth defending yourself with a gun is happening, and you have enough time to access that gun, and ready yourself, you will likely not get to use it to defend yourself. In fact, if someone, willing to do a stick-up, notices something that tips them off to you having a gun, you become a more desirable target, guns are expensive, and easy to fence. They will have their gun drawn before you really notice they are there, then it is very unlikely trying to defend yourself will do anything but get you shot.
ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 days ago
You’d think that, and then a guy pulls a knife on you and your GF in a walmart parking lot. You have ample time to get to your belt, in fact you have so much time that when time you touch the grip you can give him the “you sure?” look without even pulling it, and he can go “sure not” and turn and walk away to rob someone else. Happened to me, went in and bought my bread instead of whatever that guy had in mind.
Just because sometimes you’re in a Kobayashi Maru and phasers won’t help doesn’t mean you never need phasers or that they never help.
Jiggle_Physics@sh.itjust.works 2 days ago
This conversation is not that it NEVER happens, it is addressing why the stats where someone defends themselves with a gun are so low. In practice, defending yourself from armed thieves just gets you killed, or badly injured, the vast majority of the time. If that person had a gun, was standing out initial grabbing distance, and you hadn’t pulled your gun yet, you going to touch that grip would have likely just gotten you shot, and left bleeding in that parking lot, as the person ran off.
ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 days ago
Debatable. Define “low” and define what we’re counting as defensive use of a firearm.
The lowest estimate for Defensive Gun Use (hereafter referred to as DGU) we have is 100k/yr, done by Harvard and only using verifiable police reports where the defender killed the attacker. That entirely discounts situations like mine, in which the attacker was scared off by the mere presence of a firearm without a shot being fired. 100k/yr is still more than our gun deaths/yr, so if that’s “low” then our gun deaths incl homicide, accidents, and suicide is too. And even if it is low, I bet the individuals in question are happy to have had it when they did need it and could use it.
The other commonly cited estimate is by Gary Kleck and John Lott, and used to be on the CDC’s website (not sure if still is, but it can be found.) They estimated between 500k and 3mil DGU/yr, and includes situations like mine. Whether or not you want to discount them, the numbers are still higher than I’d call “low.”
Of course drawing from the drop is bad practice, nobody advises it, but you positioning it as a guarantee is clearly not the case at least 100k times/yr. In real reality, defensive gun use happens all the time.
Tb0n3@sh.itjust.works 2 days ago
That’s why it’s concealed. The robber doesn’t know who has a gun, unless they’re banned, then they’re safe.
Jiggle_Physics@sh.itjust.works 2 days ago
You might be surprised how often it is easy to tell someone has a concealed gun, if you know what you are looking for.
Tb0n3@sh.itjust.works 2 days ago
Yeah. With lengthy observation that is NOT going to happen with a robbery. This isn’t a heist movie.