If i am able to switch one word in a 3 sentence comment in order make it exactly sound like what a Fascist would say, it is probably not a very anti fascist thing. Dehumanizing the outgroup is very fascist.
Comment on Teddybears - Punkrocker
outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 days agoFascists aren’t people in most of the ways that matter.
They do have viable organs tho, if we wanted to address the shortage in an easy and ethical way.
lowleekun@ani.social 4 days ago
outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 days ago
Everything accusation is a confession. Why would this one be any different?
If you have meaningful criteria for what personhood is and why it matters-criteria constructed with intellectual honestly to have some actual utility and not just a desire to avoid awkward questions-it’s very likely a fascist does not meet them.
Is chat gpt a person? Why or why not? If yes, what’s the earliest model that counted, why did previous models not?
Odds are most of your answers for not are either silly ‘its not even made of meat’ and kind of offensive (you only think i have value because im meaty and delicious? Wtf?) or apply at least somewhat to fascists.
lowleekun@ani.social 4 days ago
Is chatgpt a person? Maybe, if you find the right definition. Is chatgpt a human? No Is a Fascist a person? Maybe not if you find the right definition. Is a Fascist a human? For sure.
I have no problems fighting fascists, if needed with strong violence. The moment we throw then into a camp for extermination is the point i am going to fight the new fascists.
You can sate your sadism on fantasy, no need to become the monster yourself.
outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 days ago
the right definition
Cool, which one(s) do you use? You’re avoiding the question. Which is silly.
person? Skipping that. Human? Of course!
Cool so say hi to henrietta for me. I don’t see why thats a philosophically important thing, being a particular species of ape, and privileging it when there are obviously other intelligent species in the world, other people, seems incredibly bigoted and shitty.
that would make me a fascist!
Industrialized violence is not what makes a fascist a fascist. It is a philosophy. A very stupid one, but a philosophy. Plenty of people before and after gabriel d’anunzio have done plenty of horrible things without being fascists. Fascism is not a synonym for ‘thing i don’t like’, for fuck’s sake. And that sentence is one I’ve heard a fascist say, but apparently you need fucking reminding.
save the nazis!
So i am actually down to have this discussion, albeit from pretty close to team ‘and their families: if it’s old enough to talk it’s old enough to hang’ but you’re avoiding potentially uncomfortable questions because they make you uncomfortable, and i would ask more intellectual honesty from you than you’re willing to give yourself. Which seems rude, so lets not.
TigerAce@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 days ago
By dehumanizing them you’re no different. Treat your enemies with respect, they are human too, just dumb pieces of shit. Don’t lower yourself to their level. Be better than them.
boolean_sledgehammer@lemmy.world 4 days ago
Keep pleading for their respect when they have a gun to the back of your head. I’m sure that will work.
TigerAce@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 days ago
The thing is, I’m not pleading for their respect. I won’t get it. I just won’t lower myself to their level so I will not grant them the argument “see, they are doing the same”.
MotoAsh@lemmy.world 4 days ago
If you do not understand the principles of defending the humanity you love fromcthe people who want to destroy it, then you are WORSE THAN USELESS. These people are actively destroying society and the very “humanity” you want to preserve… yet you still won’t attack them??
You are nothing but a useful idiot to fascists with that kind of pacifist attitude…
outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 days ago
Reflexive simplistic judgement without willingness to pull apart or confront uncomfortable ideas that may threaten orthodoxy; most antifascist thought.
Gigasser@lemmy.world 3 days ago
Tbh, I do agree with him that we shouldn’t dehumanize. Fascists are humans, who deserve to be put down. There. Easy. No dehumanization, and you can still say that they deserve bullets blowing their brains out the back their heads.
MotoAsh@lemmy.world 4 days ago
No, peopke who sherk their humanity, willingly and emphatically, do NOT deserve to be humanized. Yes, we need to remember they are humans, but they are terrible people who choose to be terrible. Only a fucking moron or a fellow terrible person thinks they deserve to be treated better than they treat others.
TigerAce@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 days ago
That’s the excuse for Hamas to commit terrorist acts on Israel. It’s also the excuse for Israel to commit the worst war crimes of this century by far. Lowering yourself to the level of the enemy makes you just as bad. Be better.
I think very little of them, I’m disgusted by them, I hate them with everything I’ve got, but I will not dehumanize them or justify crimes against humanity against them. No matter whether they would do that to me. They deserve consequences for their behavior. They need to be sentenced for their crimes. Legally, democratically, within the law. If we don’t, how are we any different? They think they are better humans than others, you know, like the nazis. Untermenschen. If you’re not a nazi, fascist or racist, you won’t dehumanize others.
MotoAsh@lemmy.world 3 days ago
No matter who it is, people need to realize who are defending themselves and who are going out of their way to commit offenses. When it comes to politics, people conveniently forget bad people DO exist, on all sides.
It DOES NOT MATTER what is currently going on in the world. It DOES NOT MATTER if they claim to be humans. It DOES NOT MATTER if you want to continue calling them humans.
What you need to learn is… these are humans who willingly betray the humanity you claim to want to defend… yet you continue to defend them, all in the name of some childish idea of “justice”.
I agree things should be done legally where possible. What you need to learn is the law is not good! It doesn’t create justice. It doesn’t create peace. They’re just rules people are supposed to follow, good or bad.
What DOES matter, is people like you constantly running interference for literally and directly evil people. Stop equating people defending themselves with people who want to commit the offenses. There us a HUGE difference between someone doing something bad to defend their own freedom, and someone who wants to go out of their way to remove someone else’s freedom.
You can treat them as humanely as you want. What you NEED to learn is… they are enemies of the humanity you want to protect! Literally, directly, enemies of humanity. Why do you insist on equating them with people on defense?
5too@lemmy.world 4 days ago
Whether they deserve it or not, I won’t dehumanize them; because I don’t want to become someone who dehumanizes others.
MotoAsh@lemmy.world 3 days ago
Being a human is very, very different than having humanity. People need to realize these are humans … who willingly betray their humanity.
They are literally and directly enemies of humanity, who need to be treated as such.
outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 days ago
Addressed elsewhere downthread.
And if they dont want to be people in any of the ways that matter to me, calling them people eould be profoundly disrespectful. They aren’t me abd dont have my values and treating them like they are/do would be disrespectful.
Nobodys arguing that. I just don’t see why it gets brought up. Plenty of people arent human-dogs cats elephants octopi corvids cetaceans. If they’re not lesser for not being human, i dont see why it’s something i should be so fucking proud of.
There’s actually more to it than that. Plenty if dumb pieces of shit aren’t fascists.
Thanks, got it handled. Take your own advice and don’t be super reactionary and tribalistic while reducing everything to shallow aesthetics. Try rigorous examination if the things you believe and elaboration, rather than reflexive gut reaction, or you really are not so different from them.