It matters a lot though what kind of goal the system incentivises. Imagine if it was people’s happiness and freedom instead of quarterly profits.
I feel like half of the blame capitalism gets is valid, but the other half is just society. I don’t care what kind of system you’re under, you’re going to have to deal with other people.
Oh, and if you try the system where you don’t have to deal with people, that just means other people end up handling you.
kazerniel@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Marshezezz@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
That’s the part people never really seem to understand. It makes sense though because we’re subjected to the system from birth and it’s all a lot of people know so they can’t grasp the idea of a world outside of that so it can sometimes be difficult to get through to people on that
nymnympseudonym@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Imagine if it was people’s happiness and freedom instead of quarterly profits
- Whose happiness and freedom?
- How is it to be measured?
- Capitalists honestly believe that free trade is the best albeit flawed way to do both of the above
It’s definitely valid to disagree about point #3, but then you need to give a better model for #1 and #2
kazerniel@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
- Optimise for maximum happiness and freedom and minimum suffering on a societal level, while making sure that a certain threshold of freedom-from-suffering is met for every single individual. (So that happiness for the majority is not reached via the suffering of minorities.) Obviously there can be arguments about where we draw the lines for the specifics of these.
- Quite a few ways have been developed to measure happiness, wellbeing, flourishing, quality of life, whatever nuance you want to pick.
- We have ample proof that it’s a system that fundamentally undermines societal happiness by incentivising the accumulation of wealth at the expense of the wellbeing of people and ecosystems. It’s decades overdue to radically change the way the world’s economy works. (Which is of course not something those with the most power want, so unlikely to happen any time soon.)
null@lemmy.nullspace.lol 3 weeks ago
The neat part is that anything bad that happens under capitalism is capitalism’s fault, but anything good that happens is actually socialism happening in spite of capitalism, somehow.
Marshezezz@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Could you give some examples?
null@lemmy.nullspace.lol 2 weeks ago
Socialized healthcare
Marshezezz@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
And in what way does capitalism socialize healthcare in the United States?
nymnympseudonym@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I would give this reddit gold
Instant easy complaints help-i’m-oppressed-by-Capitalism today sound an awful lot like the instant easy complaints help-i’m-oppressed-by-Communism I used to hear from rednecks
Ask someone who starved & dies under either system how obviously superior it is
null@lemmy.nullspace.lol 2 weeks ago
Also consider that Socialism is totally legal under Capitalism. Want to start a co-op? Go for it. Want to legislate and implement socialized healthcare? Many Capitalist countries have.
Under Communism, Capitalism must be illegal and stamped out by force. Want to start a business making shoes and hire someone to work for an agreed upon wage? Illegal.
When the goal involves guaranteeing positive rights, I’m not sure how it can be achieved without coercion.
nymnympseudonym@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
ofc a lot depends on the precise definitions of terms, state corporatism is not synonymous with generally free markets operating under the regulation of a basically diverse inclusive democracy.
0x0@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Marshezezz@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Could you clarify on what you mean with “dealing with people”? I’m not really sure the point you’re trying to make with that
Serinus@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The complaint that got blamed on capitalism was:
The information age gave way for the misinformation age, where everything is fake.
and if there’s one entity/person most responsible for that, it’s Putin or the GOP. Most of it is political, and very little to do with capitalism itself. Except that capitalism surrounds and is intertwined with everything.
Still, if you get rid of capitalism, it doesn’t get rid of politics. I’d argue that the root of the issue is the GOP trying to hoard power (money and otherwise), and power is going to exist with or without capitalism. Is North Korea capitalist? Do they have issues with disinfo?
This Christian Sharia Law movement doesn’t exist for money.
Marshezezz@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Capitalism itself is political. But the point I was making was that capitalism was the driving force of enshittenfication of all our technology that could be used for helping us all but instead it’s only about profit. Which is capitalism…
Serinus@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Two of the largest drivers are religion, christians wanting their Sharia Law, and Russia taking political control of the US.
Capitalism is in the top three, sure. It’s also part of the driver of that technology.
I don’t think we should worship capitalism as we have, but I don’t think getting rid of capitalism as a whole solves more problems than it creates.
Give me capitalism with heavy socialist controls and political separation please, thanks. The general idea of using money as a measure of what society owes you isn’t terrible. It’s allowing that measure to get so out of whack and have such inordinate control of everything that is the problem.
amju_wolf@pawb.social 3 weeks ago
In this case it is purely fault of the money incentive though. Noone would spend so much effort and computation power on AI if they didn’t think it could make them money.
The funniest part is though that it’s only theoretical anyway, everyone is only losing on it and they’re most likely never gonna make it back.