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I don’t see how this is helpful. I guess you’re trying to remove incentives for joining the military? But really you’re just punishing veterans with PTSD. Keep in mind the military, at least in America, recruits what are effectively kids and then makes it a crime to disobey orders or quit. I’m not saying soldiers aren’t responsible for their actions, but also that kinda feels like punishing the working class for the crimes of the ruling class.

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thegoodally@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

makes it a crime to disobey orders

That’s the opposite of the truth, if the orders are unlawful.

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- StocktonCrushed@sh.itjust.works ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
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  - thegoodally@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    While I agree some cases may be like that, Law of War isn’t very complex stuff and it is typically pretty easy to know whether an order is lawful or not (i.e., is a person or thing a lawful target or is it civillian in nature, etc.) The scenario outlined in the comment below about refusing Trumps orders wouldn’t be interpreted by a low ranking grunt, but between much higher eschelons who will have access to an entire team of lawyers to determine legality.
    
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  - moseschrute@lemmy.zip ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Yeah that was my understanding as well. Mostly based on this video. m.youtube.com/watch?v=TwPLqGkYnBA
    
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booly@sh.itjust.works ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

But really you’re just punishing veterans with PTSD

Failing to give special treatment to someone is not punishing them. Especially when we’re talking about special treatment for an entire category of people, most of whom don’t have PTSD (estimates range from 6-27% of those deployed to a war zone, and not all veterans served in a war zone), many of whom are financially well off.

Maybe the VA and the federal government should do more for vets. Maybe the military itself should take care of the troops a bit better. But asking private businesses to prop up veterans at their own expense seems like a misguided approach.

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- moseschrute@lemmy.zip ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I think you could make the same argument for other things. Why do you tip servers in America? Aren’t you just propping up a system that screws them over? Why are you forgiving student loans? Aren’t you just propping up a system that put them into debt in the first place?
  
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  - UpperBroccoli@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    I think you could make the same argument for other things. Why do you tip servers in America? Aren’t you just propping up a system that screws them over? Why are you forgiving student loans? Aren’t you just propping up a system that put them into debt in the first place?
    
    Yes! Yes! YES!
    
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    moseschrute@lemmy.zip ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    100% I agree the system needs to change. But what I asking is do you immediately remove the badaids on the current system? Or do you leave those bandaids in place until the current system is changed?
    
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  - booly@sh.itjust.works ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    Why are you forgiving student loans?
    
    That’s the federal government’s administration of a federal government program, so no, that’s not the same at all.
    
    Why do you tip servers in America?
    
    That’s the basic deal. If a restaurant implements a no tipping policy, they’re allowed to do that. I don’t see how that’s the same or different from a restaurant implementing a “discount for veterans” or “no discounts for veterans” policy. It sounds like we’re in favor of a system where the restaurant chooses what they want to be about, whether it’s a tip-based system or not, or a discounts for vets place or not.
    
    So in a sense, it sounds like you agree with me that we should let the restaurants choose. Neither choice is a “punishment” of anyone.
    
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    moseschrute@lemmy.zip ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I agree that the underlying system needs to be changed. But what I’m arguing is you have a system that is not ideal, and you have bandaids on that system. For example, it’s very not ideal that restaurant servers depends on tips for a living. However, if you stop tipping without requiring restaurants to pay servers a living wage, aren’t you screwing over the server, not the restaurant? Or do you leave those bandaids in place and try and fundamentally change the underlying system?
    
    I’m asking. I don’t know the history of how systems like this have been changed in the past. But the examples I gave, in my mind, were all systems in our society that are broken and have bandaid solutions. It’s not ideal that we offer better services to vets with PTSD, it’s not ideal that restaurant wait staff requires tips to pay rent, and it’s not ideal that student loans are required to pay for an education.
    
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PlaidBaron@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
None of this entitles them to a discount.

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