Comment on We wouldn’t need the Epstein files to prove DJT’s guilt if society just trusted women in the first place.

• Perspectivist@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  When people have sex, they usually do it in private, without any witnesses. Whatever happens during that time is often difficult to prove afterward, since it typically comes down to one person’s word against the other’s. Unless there’s clear physical evidence of assault, it can be extremely hard to establish that something was done against someone’s will. Most reasonable people would agree that “she said so” alone doesn’t amount to proof - and isn’t, by itself, a valid basis for sending someone to prison.

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  • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Whatever happens during that time is often difficult to prove afterward

    “Listen, you were in an alley and nobody was around, so how do we know you weren’t handing over the wallet voluntarily?”

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    • spankmonkey@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      “Maybe you asked them to hit you when you volunteered to hand over your wallet.”

      “Hey Pete, this guy is one of those men trying to ruin innocent people’s lives with false mugging claims!”

      Hot damn this comment section is a flood of sexist shitheads being perfect example of the culture that assumes women’s accusations are false and trying to ruin men’s lives. So damn disappointing.

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    • Perspectivist@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      What are you suggesting exactly? You have an actual solution here to offer or you just want to be a smart ass?

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      • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        What are you suggesting exactly?

        That police and prosecutors do their fucking jobs.

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      • Bubbey@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        He wants cops to sit in a cuck chair and observe every sexual encounter to ensure no funny business. He’ll also have a little retail iPad where you do an esignature for consent before starting.

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• SomethingBlack@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  I don’t think the current legal systems are perfect, but I do think “believe women” would make them fundamentally worse.

  How do you handle the issue of future false accusations? And don’t give me the hand wavy “but there are so few false accusations” because that doesn’t matter to the person being accused.

  THE core tenet of most legal systems is effectively “innocent until proven guilty”. “Believe women” utterly breaks that, they cannot exist within the same legal framework.

  So, would you rather have the legal system change to better serve women by equally investigating their accusations, or by removing “innocent until proven guilty”?

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  • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    How do you handle the issue of future false accusations?

    The same way you do it with men, presumably. Document the incident, collect forensic evidence, interview suspects, refer the matter to the local DA.

    removing “innocent until proven guilty”?

    I’m trying to imagine this response for any other crime. “Oh, you want us to investigate your car jacking? How do we know you don’t loan it out voluntarily? I guess we should just convict an innocent person!”

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    • SomethingBlack@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      See, this is the problem. “Believe women” implies that women are telling the truth before an investigation has taken place. If you had read my original comment you’d see that I’m not suggesting women should be treated as they currently are, but that “believe women” specifically is a harmful rhetoric.

      If we both want women’s accusations to be taken seriously and investigated as any other potential crime would be, then we’re on the same page and want the same thing. The statement “believe women” does not literally or figuratively mean that though, the problem is the wording. Say what you mean instead of this wishy washy language that is detrimental to the cause.

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      • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        “Believe women” implies that women are telling the truth before an investigation has taken place.

        In 2022, at least 25,000 untested rape kits sat in law enforcement agencies and crime labs across the country. This figure only accounts for data reported by 30 states and Washington, DC; the total backlog number is unknown.

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        Findings from Canadian national policing data indicate that one in five cases (i.e., 20%) of sexual assault reports to police are deemed baseless (Doolittle et al., 2017). However, the high rates of unfounded are inconsistent with findings from a meta-analysis of seven studies of confirmed false reports of sexual assault to police (Ferguson & Malouff, 2016). They reported that the rate of false reports was approximately 5% (0.52 [95% CI .030, .089], which is considerably lower than the Canadian average for unfounded sexual assault classifications. Sexual assault appears to be coded as unfounded with relative regularity and seems to be ubiquitous within law enforcement discourse. High rates of unfounded sexual assaults reveal that dismissing sexual violence has become common practice amongst police in Canada

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        In the fall of 2016, Harvey Weinstein set out to suppress allegations that he had sexually harassed or assaulted numerous women.

        The explicit goal of the investigations, laid out in one contract with Black Cube, signed in July, was to stop the publication of the abuse allegations against Weinstein that eventually emerged in the New York Times and The New Yorker.

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• plantfanatic@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  If you asked me, I would have guessed a number a fraction of that.

  That sounds like there’s an exceptionally high amount lying.

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  • zqps@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Wow, you solved the problem with nothing but misogyny!

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