This is exactly right. The “believe women” stance is so childish and naive. “Take women seriously” would be just as effective, less dangerous and fit into every just legal system on the planet
This is exactly right. The “believe women” stance is so childish and naive. “Take women seriously” would be just as effective, less dangerous and fit into every just legal system on the planet
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 2 days ago
For every 100 rapes and sexual assaults of teenage girls and women reported to police, only 18 lead to an arrest
It’s naive to believe our criminal justice system is reliably investigating and prosecuting instances of sexual assault.
Perspectivist@feddit.uk 1 day ago
When people have sex, they usually do it in private, without any witnesses. Whatever happens during that time is often difficult to prove afterward, since it typically comes down to one person’s word against the other’s. Unless there’s clear physical evidence of assault, it can be extremely hard to establish that something was done against someone’s will. Most reasonable people would agree that “she said so” alone doesn’t amount to proof - and isn’t, by itself, a valid basis for sending someone to prison.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 1 day ago
“Listen, you were in an alley and nobody was around, so how do we know you weren’t handing over the wallet voluntarily?”
spankmonkey@lemmy.world 1 day ago
“Maybe you asked them to hit you when you volunteered to hand over your wallet.”
“Hey Pete, this guy is one of those men trying to ruin innocent people’s lives with false mugging claims!”
Hot damn this comment section is a flood of sexist shitheads being perfect example of the culture that assumes women’s accusations are false and trying to ruin men’s lives. So damn disappointing.
Perspectivist@feddit.uk 1 day ago
What are you suggesting exactly? You have an actual solution here to offer or you just want to be a smart ass?
SomethingBlack@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I don’t think the current legal systems are perfect, but I do think “believe women” would make them fundamentally worse.
How do you handle the issue of future false accusations? And don’t give me the hand wavy “but there are so few false accusations” because that doesn’t matter to the person being accused.
THE core tenet of most legal systems is effectively “innocent until proven guilty”. “Believe women” utterly breaks that, they cannot exist within the same legal framework.
So, would you rather have the legal system change to better serve women by equally investigating their accusations, or by removing “innocent until proven guilty”?
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 1 day ago
The same way you do it with men, presumably. Document the incident, collect forensic evidence, interview suspects, refer the matter to the local DA.
I’m trying to imagine this response for any other crime. “Oh, you want us to investigate your car jacking? How do we know you don’t loan it out voluntarily? I guess we should just convict an innocent person!”
SomethingBlack@lemmy.world 1 day ago
See, this is the problem. “Believe women” implies that women are telling the truth before an investigation has taken place. If you had read my original comment you’d see that I’m not suggesting women should be treated as they currently are, but that “believe women” specifically is a harmful rhetoric.
If we both want women’s accusations to be taken seriously and investigated as any other potential crime would be, then we’re on the same page and want the same thing. The statement “believe women” does not literally or figuratively mean that though, the problem is the wording. Say what you mean instead of this wishy washy language that is detrimental to the cause.
plantfanatic@sh.itjust.works 2 days ago
If you asked me, I would have guessed a number a fraction of that.
That sounds like there’s an exceptionally high amount lying.
zqps@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
Wow, you solved the problem with nothing but misogyny!