Wage theft. Seriously, it is the biggest drain of money from ordinary workers.
Comment on Survey: More Than 1 In 4 Americans Feel They Need To Make $150,000 Or More To Live Comfortably
calcopiritus@lemmy.world 3 days ago
Why is the cost of living so incredibly high in the US?
It cannot be because of consumer goods. Because both Europe and the US have similar prices for those since they are made by international companies.
It cannot be food, the US is a big exporter of food. And those exports go to countries with lower costs of living.
It cannot be vacations. You could “just” fly to Europe and have european vacation prices.
Is it just housing and healthcare?
SabinStargem@lemmy.today 3 days ago
CoffeeJunkie@lemmy.cafe 3 days ago
Well, it would be incredibly naive to omit or not factor in all the tax-raping. You make $150K, good for you, but you don’t get to keep that. Using my state, I Googled how much money is stolen when you earn $150K…they steal $45,442. Leaving you with $104,558. How generous of them. 🙄
So the average person wants to make $150K annually SO THEY CAN KEEP just slightly over $100K. Then yes, the health care & the bills & the savings & the spending. It can chew through $100K quickly enough.
lime@feddit.nu 3 days ago
oh fun, an actual “taxation is theft” person. i’m assuming you don’t drive?
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world 3 days ago
On one hand, it’s reasonable for Americans to be upset with their taxes because they pay so much and get so little back in return. On the other hand, you never see these people complaining about how so much their taxes go to corporate handouts instead of useful things like socialized health care, child care, housing, etc. instead it becomes all about them personally. It’s very telling. The US is a land of mentally ill sycophants.
CoffeeJunkie@lemmy.cafe 3 days ago
I drive more than you, and I see the point you’re trying to make but it doesn’t work in my state.
lime@feddit.nu 3 days ago
ok, just checking
calcopiritus@lemmy.world 3 days ago
Ignoring all the taxation is theft bullshit, my original question is how is america so expensive that living wages are considered 8x of the highest minimum wages of europe (Less than 20k).
America has lower taxes than any European country. So that cannot be the answer.
acchariya@lemmy.world 2 days ago
*income taxes are lower in America
I would argue that the overall tax burden to the government is not all that different. Income tax rates are higher in Europe, 37% in the US at my top tier and about 47% in Europe at the same top tier. However, the US has a lot of hidden taxes, and a whole lot of corporate parasitism which functions as a tax
calcopiritus@lemmy.world 2 days ago
So tell me. What are those hidden taxes?
What type of corporate parasitism are you referring to that hurts Americans more than Europeans?
KuroiKaze@lemmy.world 3 days ago
Wow I can’t believe how little you understand about what taxes are and how they work. The US has some of the lowest tax rates compared to its peers.
porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml 3 days ago
Those are pretty low taxes
LordCrom@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Yes it is housing and healthcare. Even with health insurance, a major sickness can bankrupt anybody, especially when insurance denies coverage.
ijedi1234@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
Which is why I’m considering a Do Not Resuscitate. I don’t want some asshole EMT to bring me back.
Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 3 days ago
Housing is expensive in the UK as well isn’t it? Most times I hear prices they seem pretty comparable. Just like the US there is also a large variation by location of course, cities completely unaffordable and towns just very expensive.
Around me is ~65m² bungalows, £225-275k in a town quite a long way from London, along the south coast. London prices scare me so I try and pretend nothing exists within the M25.
Zenith@lemm.ee 3 days ago
1 in 4 sounds more than ~25% but it’s 25% that’s a minority that feel this way, it’s not a reflection of most of our realities. Yes the cost of living is too high but ~75% don’t feel we need $150,000 to be comfortable
calcopiritus@lemmy.world 3 days ago
That’s fair. Although I need to point out that the title literally says “more than 1 in 4” which makes it kinda funny.
SaintNyx@lemmy.world 3 days ago
That’s a large portion of it yes. Don’t forget that 150k salary is before taxes. The cost of food has sky rocketed lately. Don’t forget transportation. If you live in a big city you might take a bus or Metro, but for most Americans there isn’t a good network so add gas, car insurance, and possibly a car payment if you don’t own. And if you have kids get ready for child care expenses, unless you have a stay at home parent… But then you only have one income. Rent, utilities, little glasses for Timmy, cell phone bills and those TV subscriptions you’re slowly sailing the high seas on as they nickel and dime you. It all adds up.
calcopiritus@lemmy.world 3 days ago
Europeans also buy little glasses for Timmy and such. I don’t think the price of those kind of things is much different. Same for utilities, phone and TV. The one I’m most uncertain about is utilities, but I believe electricity at least is usually cheaper in america.
The car one is fair. Although it’s true that in Europe there’s also tons of people on cars, public transit is at least a valid option, unlike in much of the US.
Taxes is not though. Taxes in america are usually way lower than in Europe.
So transportation+healthcare are the only expenses that are clearly more expensive in america. Housing being highly dependant on location is hard to compare nation-based. And it’s also the biggest component. I’d be curious to see the actual “living wage” difference between two places, one Europeans and another American with similar housing prices.
acchariya@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Ten years ago, things might have been cheaper, but not any longer. I’m an American living in an expensive part of Europe, while also maintaining a place in a similarly expensive part of the US. I’m going to say Europe Here but I’m referring to our specific corner of Europe which has a huge range of costs. Similar for the US. Here are my actual numbers:
Electricity: Europe: 99€ US: $95
Internet: Europe: 26€ US: $62
mobile phone (per line): Europe: 17€ US: $40
grocery budget (monthly) family of two: Europe: 750€ US: $900
Health insurance monthly (private): Europe: 190€ US: $800 (partially subsidized by work, real price closer to $1200)
Car insurance monthly: Europe: 105€ US: $195
Petrol costs monthly: Europe: 225€ ~7€/gallon US: $250 ~$3.50/gallon
Oil change at car dealership: Europe: 70€ US: $95
US mortgage + tax + insurance (2 bedroom house): $1775
Europe rent + renter insurance: 1225€
Local mid range restaurant: Europe: 62€ US: $105
Dog grooming: Europe: 60€ US: $95
Vet visit: Europe: 60€ US: $150
Doctors visit (with insurance): Europe: 30€ US: $50
Diagnostic labs (with insurance): Europe: 30€ US: $150
The US has become shockingly expensive. Some of this is because we spend more to eat quality food when there, and we are in a bit of a touristy area. Both locations are in touristy areas though, so not entirely different. I might be in the minority but I don’t see much difference in lifestyle between the two areas I frequent.
The fruits and vegetables are about the same price but taste much better in Europe.
The bread is far cheaper, more available and better in Europe.
The specialty products we like to eat are much cheaper in Europe. Eg, feta cheese, french butter and jam, etc.
The meat is about the same, maybe a bit cheaper in Europe. I don’t taste much difference.
The most important differences for us are:
If we don’t feel good we go the the emergency room in Europe. Yes we will wait a long time to be seen, but the cost last time was 175€. In the US, you will wait a day to see if you feel better, because you are going to wait just as long and the bill will be a minimum of $1200 with insurance.
We do not take the car out every day in Europe, because we can walk to a small grocery store, medical lab, print shop, bakery. We must take the car out for any trip in the US, and the distances are longer.
Customer service in Europe is sometimes not all that helpful, and they give that impression to you when talking to them. Customer service in the US seems very nice and accommodating, but they are equally unhelpful in most cases.
People you hire to do work for you seem to have far more variability in the US. They might be extraordinarily expensive, super cheap, might not show up, etc. In Europe, the prices seem to be on average cheaper than the US, and the workers on average a bit more reliable, but more laid back and less busy than in the US.
And finally, most importantly, any company you deal with in the US will constantly try to extract more and more from you. Every year, prices ratchet up, new charges are itemized, things previously included now cost extra, billing mistakes are created and they are never in your favor. In Europe our experience is that companies you deal with mostly maintain prices. To be fair, some of these are sanctioned monopolies, but the same is true in the US and somehow they do it anyway. This has been our experience with insurance, utilities, car maintenance, etc. The system wears you down in the US until you have no fight left.
SaintNyx@lemmy.world 3 days ago
There are cost of living calculators that give very basic averages of areas. I can tell when I lived in NC I paid about 30$ for car insurance. But when I lived in Detroit MI I payed about 300$. Monthly. That was about 7-8 years ago. Apartments in my small little town in PA are going for about 1500-1800$ for a 1 bedroom apartment. For healthcare I pay about 200$ a week. That’s for a family of 3.