My brother in Christ they have to train the fucking models on real CSAM. It’s not like AI generated CSAM is suddenly a victimless crime.
Comment on AI-generated child sex imagery has every US attorney general calling for action
Kerfuffle@sh.itjust.works 9 months agoIt’s obviously very distasteful but those needs don’t just go away. If people with that inclination can’t satisfy their sexual urges at home just looking at porn, it seems more likely they’re going to go out into the world and try to find some other way to do it.
Also, controlling what people do at home that isn’t affecting anyone else, even in a case like this isn’t likely to target exactly just those people and it’s also very likely not to stop there either. I’d personally be very hesitant to ban/persecute stuff like that unless there was actual evidence that it was harmful and that the cure wasn’t going to be worse than the disease.
JackbyDev@programming.dev 9 months ago
phx@lemmy.ca 9 months ago
Even if the imagery was 100 computer-generated without a training model based in abuse, at some point it becomes a line between “is somebody being hurt” and “what is acceptable in civilized society”. If we accept CG CSAM then what else? Gore porn? Snuff? Bestiality? How about a child being sexually assaulted and mutilated by animals at the same time? There is always stuff that’s going to push you envelope further and further, and how do you even tell if real individuals are involved, if it’s CG, or some combination of such?
If they’re all CG, then nobody real is being hurt BUT there’s still gotta be a line between acceptable and unacceptable. Society - at least western society- by and large has decided that the majority of those categories are not acceptable by law, so regardless of how it’s made it’s still illegal, and the dissemination of such can still have a harmful effect on society in general.
PopOfAfrica@lemmy.world 9 months ago
We already have that line though. Beheading photos, for example, arent illegal, but they are banned from moat websites.
ram@lemmy.ca 9 months ago
Get psychological help
Get psychological help
Feeding pedophilia is directly harmful to children who grow more at risk
I’d personally be very hesitant to say “it’s okay to beat off to children” unless there was an actual clinical psychologist involved with the person I’m speaking to saying as such.
Kerfuffle@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
How about addressing my points instead of the ad hominem attacks?
Like I said: “I’d personally be very hesitant to ban/persecute stuff like that unless there was actual evidence that it was harmful”
If what you’re saying here is actually true then the type of evidence I mentioned would exist. I kind of doubt it works that way though. If you stop “feeding” being straight, gay, whatever, does it just go away and you no longer have those sexual desires? I doubt it.
Much as we might hate it that some people do have those urges, it’s the reality. Pretending reality doesn’t exist usually doesn’t work out well.
I never said any such thing. Also, in this case, we’re also talking about images that resemble children, not actual children.
Jamie@jamie.moe 9 months ago
I’m not the guy you’re replying to, but I will say this is a topic that is never going to see a good consensus, because there are two questions of morality at play, which under normal circumstances are completely agreeable. However, when placed into this context, they collide.
Pornography depicting underage persons is reprehensible and should not exist
The production and related abuse of children should absolutely be stopped
To allow AI child porn is to say that to some extent, we allow the material to exist, even if it depicts an approximation of a real person whether they are real or not, but at the potential gain of harming the industry producing the real thing. To make it illegal is to agree with the consensus that it shouldn’t exist, but will maintain the status quo for issue #2 and, in theory, cause more real children to be harmed.
Of course, the argument here goes much deeper than that. If you try to dig into it mentally, you end up going into recursive branches that lead in both directions. I’m not trying to dive into that rabbit hole here, but I simply wanted to illustrate the moral dilemma of it.
Droechai@lemm.ee 9 months ago
So we should ban books like Lolita since it can be interpreted as porn, or is it only visual that should be banned? If books are okay, are an inga of stick figures with a sign “child” okay? How much detail should the visual image have before it gets banned?
How about 1000 year old dragons in a child’s body? How about images of porn stars with very petite bodies?
ram@lemmy.ca 9 months ago
That is addressing your point. These people need to get psychological help.
The harms brought by conversion therapy to the gay and straight people outweigh the harms that are brought about by allowing them to exist. The same is not true of pedophilia. Though it is interesting if you do see these as the same, are you for the persecution of gay or straight people as you are pedophiles, or are you in favour of pedophiles being able to enact their desires?
It is the reality, and pretending people will just safely keep their desires to themselves has proven to not work.
I never said you said it, but it is the result of what you’re saying.
Since you’re drawing this distinction from the words you decided were thrust in your mouth, they weren’t, would you say “it’s okay to beat off to children who may not exist”?
You’re outwardly expressing pedophile apologia.
What rights are you giving up?
Falmarri@lemmy.world 9 months ago
mean_bean279@lemmy.world 9 months ago
There’s a disgusting number of people on this site that I’ve seen defending ai pedos. I honestly don’t understand where it comes from. Some people cannot and should not be helped as their views are incompatible with society.
Not to mention that AI pedophilia could simply be creating a massive stepping stone to the real thing. Which I’ve also seen a number of people on Lemmy defend people possessing CSAM and saying they didn’t produce it therefore they aren’t the criminal. It’s pure insanity. I’m incredibly liberal and progressive and even I know that’s a slope I don’t wish to have society slip down it’s not worth the risk to children who are innocent to be caught in the crossfire.
AFKBRBChocolate@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I’m not a psychologist, so I can’t say whether the other person’s argument is correct or not, but just saying “get psychological help” isn’t a very effective counter argument. CP in any form is super disturbing for a healthy person to see, so by definition the people who want to see it aren’t mentally healthy. So what does a person do who has those urges, but has never acted on them and never wants to hurt a child? I have no idea if providing such a person with AI generated CP would make things worse or help them satisfy the urges in a “safe” fashion. How about you, do you know for sure or are you just calling the other person sick in the head because the idea is repulsive?
Ultimately, I think we’ll make more progress and keep kids safer if we can provide mental help to folks like that, and that’s not going to happen if they’re terrified of admitting that they have the urges in the first place.
snek@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Unfortunately, I feel like many people opposed to pedophilia in this way don’t understand the mazes of the human brain. It may be repulsive, it may be something you could never imagine yourself doing, but someone somewhere can’t stop these urges and most pedophiles do not offend, but instead deal with this problem alone on a daily basis, stigmatized for something no other person in the world would wish upon themselves. These people need help and support, at the same time victims of pedophilia deserve all the support they can get. Balancing this with AI is difficult. Maybe if we have the technology, we could regulate it? Allow non offenders access to it, maybe they can get it through a therapist if they deem it helpful for them to manage.
It would probably take days of reading to even familiarize with studies on pedophiles and to correct my misconceptions.
AFKBRBChocolate@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Agreed, I think you have the right attitude/perspective. It could very well be that someone with those urges being given simulated CP would make things worse, I just don’t know enough to say, but I don’t think we should rule it out just because the idea of someone looking at it is offensive.