Comment on Why is the manosphere on the rise? UN Women sounds the alarm over online misogyny

MetalMachine@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

• pulsewidth@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Really? Like who? I only ever see or read feminists blaming issues on systemic issues of the patriarchy. Which is not the same as blaming all men at all.

  Much the same as saying ‘the healthcare system in the US is fucked’ is not the same as saying ‘all healthcare workers are fucked’.

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  • ProfThadBach@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    [deleted]

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    • kshade@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Especially when the messaging is constant and there’s no room for nuance.

      #YesAllMen

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    • pulsewidth@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      What conversation though? The guys that lap this up dont even have conversations with women and feminists to begin with, which is why they can be manipulated to accept such a slanted view of their arguments - they have no point of reference. Akin to how people with no Muslim friends or colleagues in their lives are more easily misled to believe fearmongering and misinformation spread about them. I think you touched on the real root of the problem: influencers and social media funneling people into echo chambers.

      I get that both sides sometimes talk past one another, but in my experience the young guys I talk to (via gaming mostly) have never spoken to a feminist or read a lick of literature and when bored online have just sought out a voice that tells them they are the good guy, or shits on a demographic that’s not them. Those voices usually start in the ‘feminist fails #38’ style YouTube videos (cut and edited to misrepresent of course)… then the Stephen Crowders… and the Andrew Tates. The pipeline to the manosphere / red pill scumbags, or worse incels or blackpill.

      These guys existing and their views increasing is not necessarily a symptom that feminists are messaging incorrectly or that academics need to use different words to explain systemic issues - IMO they’re just another wonderful side effect of the “eyeballs = money, damn the content” algorithm preferences on social media, coupled with a very accepting attitude towards mysogyny and redpill content in Facebook, YouTube and other major social media content curation teams. All you have to do is look at who they censure and ban and who they don’t (and who they unban), and who they promote. Go use a fresh install of one of these platforms on a new device to see what their algorithm promotes in the main feed to a fresh new user. The angry rich white guy influencers get peppered in amongst the Mr Beast and music videos from the first couple of pages, so it’s no wonder more guys are exposed to this bullshit.

      I tell the guys I’ve spoken with that those ‘entertainers’ are poison, chipping away at their empathy and compassion and pushing them to more isolation and fear - and that they need to be critical of what the influencers claim, and show curiosity for the community around them and engage with it rather than accept the simplistic charade. I’ve converted a few but its an uphill battle and that conversation takes months. The article points out that this is an issue that needs to be addressed - not that ‘boys need to be fixed’… but that the rise of this manosphere is damaging to all - men and women, and should be addressed systemically. Be that by parents paying closer attention to their kids content consuming habits, regulation for social media giants, laws against those who encourage sexual assault or violence, enshrining rights and protections more clearly into law, and so on - multi-pronged. The trouble is, a huge amount of guys commenting on this very article didn’t bother to read it and went straight to the usual talking points. I don’t think that’s you, but I think you can see the comments I mean.

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      • Sonor@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        I tell the guys I’ve spoken with that those ‘entertainers’ are poison, chipping away at their empathy and compassion and pushing them to more isolation and fear - and that they need to be critical of what the influencers claim, and show curiosity for the community around them and engage with it rather than accept the simplistic charade.

        Serious question, and I’m not trying to troll here. Do you tell this same piece of advice to your female friends about more radical feminist content creators?

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  • catty@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    But there is no formal ‘system’ like the healthcare system. Anytime a man is perceived as being in charge (for whatever reason and context), it becomes the “patriarchy” and subject to feminist ridicule and hatred, thus generalising hatred on men in general and not foregone rules.

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    • pulsewidth@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Really, there is no formal system of patriarchy? No kings in your world?

      The Catholic church still to this day refuses to ordain any women into the priesthood: men only.

      Ask a girl in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia if there’s any formal patriarchy when they try to go to school, or drive, or go outside without head to toe covering, or simply go outside unaccompanied by a man.

      In the west there are hundreds of industry bodies, clubs and business societies that wield enormous power and are exclusively men-only - or were men-only until the Civil Rights Act and were then taken to court to have their rules banning women overturned, or pressured for many decades to change their stance, such as the Garrick Club in the UK whom only finally opened their doors to female members last year.

      I’m a man but I’m starting to hate men too with these replies.

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      • catty@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        Oh dear.

        The Catholic church still to this day refuses to ordain any women into the priesthood: men only.

        Not my world, but so what? There are also the Roman Catholic Women Priests who felt left out so made up their own story.

        Ask a girl in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia if there’s any formal patriarchy when they try to go to school, or drive, or go outside without head to toe covering, or simply go outside unaccompanied by a man.

        Have you asked if they want to go to school, drive, go outside, or have you assumed they do? Not being a dick but there are very different opinions generally held by women of different cultures and religions that contrast with others - who’s right? Also, there are schools in middle Eastern countries, some are voluntary. Such issues are very complicated and are not black or white.

        In the west there are hundreds of industry bodies, clubs and business societies blah blah blah.

        So? "The Garrick Club is a private members’ club in London, founded in 1831 as a club for “actors and men of refinement to meet on equal terms” - you’re whining that a men-only club is not ok, but a women-only club is?

        A string of strawman arguments. I think you think your opinions make you look cool though. But it’s ok, hate me for my opinions because you can only accept yours.

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• catty@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  This right here. But no one wants to do that because it’s easier to create a groups based on existing hatred rather than inclusivity and the people who run such communities do it for the power, not the cause.

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• WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  But no one owes us any attention. That is why we have AI.

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