Comment on What do you think the solution to selling progressive politics to young men is ?

• MolochAlter@lemmy.world ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Keep in mind I’m not saying to accept TERFs, I’m saying to be smart about letting them cut themselves off instead of forcing them out.

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  • Feathercrown@lemmy.world ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Fair. IMO it depends on how much you value being morally correct vs overall effectiveness of the movement. It could be worth it to compromise the integrity slightly if it will be much more effective.

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    • MolochAlter@lemmy.world ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      IMO it depends on how much you value being morally correct vs overall effectiveness of the movement.

      And this entire thought process is why the left gets weaker every round of elections.

      Politics is about seizing and wielding power, morality has nothing to do with it.

      For one, any grifter can pretend to be more morally correct than you or I and once they get in power they will do whatever they want anyway. I would much rather side with someone who disagrees with me on some things but does so in earnest than someone who is suspiciously always somehow more moral and more correct than me or them.

      For two, morality is literally incompatible with politics, because it is downstream from the body politic.

      For instance: It is considered immoral to own slaves, today. It used to be allowed and to the mores of the time, uncontroversial.

      Then enough people who disagreed with that stance pushed to gain power and made it illegal, once that became the status quo for long enough it is now controversial to hold a position that was the default and viceversa.

      Something becomes a matter of morality once it is no longer a matter of politics.

      In practice, you don’t actually need support for all your ideas, you need enough good ideas to get you enough support that you can then push through your less popular pet issues. Even better if the pet issues themselves are popular, that’s when you get explosive successes like Trump getting re-elected by hammering the inflation button (despite anyone who knows anything about econ knowing he would be literally unable to do anything about it).

      As long as people are not actively against your pet issues they’ll re-elect you just fine, that’s how croneyism skates by unnoticed.

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      • Feathercrown@lemmy.world ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        Yes, but there is a point at whoch your movement is compromised so much that winning doesn’t matter because the common goals of the movement are no longer desirable. I don’t think we’re anywhere close to that-- we’re pretty firmly in “come on guys stop bikeshedding and work together” territory-- but it is important to know that it can swing too far the other way. That’s how we got people saying “violence is bad, you have to hear the nazi out”.

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