Comment on What do you think the solution to selling progressive politics to young men is ?

• MolochAlter@lemmy.world ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  there is a point at whoch your movement is compromised so much that winning doesn’t matter because the common goals of the movement are no longer desirable.

  That’s why movements should be built around goals and not allegiance/morality.

  “This is the movement to achieve X.”

  “X has been achieved.”

  “Aight, job well done, time to move on.”

  This is what the right does, and they’re eating the left alive, maybe it’s worth taking this very non-partisan strategy from their playbook?

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• MolochAlter@lemmy.world ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  violence is bad, you have to hear the nazi out

  AKA the same provision that protects everyone with an unpopular opinion, yourself included, yes. That’s what liberal democracies do.

  The state has a monopoly on violence, you don’t get to decide who doesn’t get rights, nor do the nazis.

  The US is a bit of an exception obviously, you guys love your political violence (one could say you are built on it) and who am I to stop you, but Europe does not work that way and thank fuck for that, lol.

  So yeah you have to let the nazi speak, that doesn’t mean you can’t talk over them, mock them, goad them into striking first so the cops will crack down on them, etc.

  I’m Italian so I guarantee you I know that it’s a complex landscape to navigate, with actual fascists (the roman salute kind, not the “we’re cops and we will do our job” ““fascists””) in a lot of police strike teams, and in the current government (Thankfully I live abroad, shit’s bad at home right now), I know it’s no picnic to actually maintain a liberal society, but other countries consistently succeed, like France and the Netherlands, or the nordics.

  It takes effort and a lot of education from early on, and that the population appreciates the importance of that education and the values it is supposed to impart.

  Conversely it was “me ne frego” and the widespread apathy towards it that condemned italy to Mussolini’s rule, not civil debate.

  Moreover, allowing and embracing political violence doesn’t work when one side is already chomping at the bit and better at it than your side, but that’s a practical consideration rather than an ethical/moral one.

  Mind you this does not mean “don’t defend yourself” it means “don’t strike first”

  Embrace the Roman doctrine: we will never pick up arms first, but if forced to we will only lay them second.

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