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Comment on The "standard" car charger is usually overkill—but your electrician might not know that [32:26]

I think “might be overkill” would be a better title and position than “usually overkill.”

There is absolutely a subset of EV drivers that could get by with a level 1 charger (ignoring time of day rates), but most people would fall behind anytime they drive further than the average number of miles. Sure, taking 10 hours to recharge your Chevy Bolt overnight when you’ve driven 40 miles is doable; 64 hours when you’ve returned home from a longer trip isn’t.

I own a PHEV, and installing a level 2 charge has been one of the best quality of life and financial changes.

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RaoulDook@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Yep the difference for our setup was going from 12-18 hour full charge times (Level 1) to about 6 hours on Level 2. L1 charger could only put out 12 amps at 120v, and while the L2 charger can do up to 50A of 240v power, our vehicle can only use about a third of that capacity at max draw.

So as the video’s topic covers, we didn’t need a 50A circuit for Level 2 charging on our limited vehicle. But I put in a full 50A circuit anyway so now I can eventually upgrade our other car to electric or PHEV and be ready for whatever those need.

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Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

I think “might be overkill” would be a better title and position than “usually overkill.”

It factually is not.

most people would fall behind anytime they drive further than the average number of miles.

Assume you drive it all the way to empty, then park it and plug it back in at 7PM. Leave it for 12 hours until you leave again in the morning. A typical small EV will charge at ~5MPH on a 110V, 1.2kW connection (faster on a 20A circuit). So 5MPH x 12 hours means you already have 60 miles of range again for the next day. And I would say that’s a pretty extreme scenario.

I use L1 almost exclusively, BTW.

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- blitzen@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  
  It factually is not.
  
  Factually, it’s not either. Both are statements of opinion, although I’d say saying the word “usually” should have some degree of proof behind it.
  
  My statement of “might be” recognizes that there are many instances that L1 makes sense, and I agree with the video that for those for whom it does shouldn’t needlessly install a 240v outlet. Sounds like you’re among those.
  
  I’d say that, sadly, most EV drivers drive more than 40 miles per day on average, and that the moment you drive more than 60 miles per day you’ll have difficulty recharging to full. Most days, you’ll have no trouble recharging overnight. But if you’re like me, you might take a day trip over 100 miles away a handful of times per year. When that happens, I’d arrive home with very little battery left; am I supposed to have the ability to charge for 50 hours?
  
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  - Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    
    Factually, it’s not either. Both are statements of opinion
    
    It is not. Hence “factually”. We know for a fact how far people “usually” drive.
    
    But if you’re like me, you might take a day trip over 100 miles away a handful of times per year. When that happens, I’d arrive home with very little battery left; am I supposed to have the ability to charge for 50 hours?
    
    I just explained this in the comment you replied to.
    
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    blitzen@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    
    I just explained this in the comment you replied to.
    
    You explained how it’s doable when you drive 60 miles, which I admit will be most people most days (12 hours of charging at 5 miles per hour charged.) Average EV has 293 miles of range currently; even if you arrived home with 20% battery remaining and you only wanted to recharge to 80%, that’s (at 5 miles per hour charged) over 25 hours. Empty to full is over 58 hours!
    
    At least once every few months we take a day trip to the nearest “big” city, which is 105 miles away. Typically a Sunday. Leave on a full battery, arrive home nearly empty. 8 hours of charging, and I maybe have enough for the next day. I will run a deficit until the weekend.
    
    Again, I’m certainly not saying that a L2 charger is a must for all people, or even most people. But I would not agree that L1 is enough for most people.
    
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- dogslayeggs@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Congrats on finding a solution that works for you. I have a short commute (16 miles round trip) and was OK to use L1 charging on a “usually” basis. However, I do more things in my life than just going to work and back. After work I might drive another 90 miles round trip to meet some friends at a brewery. Or I might drive only a couple miles to a buddy’s house and not get home until 11pm, so I now only have 7 hours to charge at L1 instead of 12 hours. And on weekends when I’m maybe driving a couple hours to hike in the desert and come back, I now have 16 hours to charge for work on Monday after driving 210 miles round trip.
  
  Switching from L1 to L2 charging at home made driving an EV go from a daily chore to something I almost never thought about.
  
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  - Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    This is not about me or you, this is “usually”.
    
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    dogslayeggs@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    That depends on what is meant by usually. You seem to think it means “most daily situations,” but I think it means “most house installations.” Yes, a usual day in a person’s life does not require L2. But the usual person does require L2 if they want to use their car like most people prefer to use their car. Once a week I need L2 charging because of all the stuff I do that isn’t commuting. That is 1 day in a 7 day week, so usually I don’t need L2. But I would not be able to have an EV if I didn’t have L2 unless I had a second car (which I don’t have). I think most people fall into this category, so the usual person needs L2 even if they don’t usually need L2.
    
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- hissingmeerkat@sh.itjust.works ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  What electric vehicle gets 5 miles/1.2kWh? That’s only 240 Wh/mi.
  
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  - Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    
    What electric vehicle gets 5 miles/1.2kWh?
    
    …I have no idea what you’re talking about.
    
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    Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    You guys really should do some reading before you downvote things you don’t understand
    
    insideevs.com/…/most-efficient-bev-us-20210918/
    
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AA5B@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Agreed, and that headline is needlessly inflammatory . Looking at my mileage , I could almost certainly get away with just plugging into a standard outlet. However the level 2 charger means that even if I screw it up, I can be mostly charged in a couple of hours. It’s been really effective at helping me get over what range anxiety I had. It’s really helped keep car usage as a somewhat impulse thing, rather than a process: I’m ready to go anywhere anytime

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- Bytemeister@lemmy.world ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  If you screw up, you can usually get to a charger a few blocks away and snag 50% of your battery in 20 minutes.
  
  I charge entirely off of a standard 120 outlet, and it easily handles my daily and weekly travel needs, along with my partner’s numerous errands and extra trips throughout the week.
  
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  - jumping_redditor@sh.itjust.works ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    you are assuming functional infrastructure, not everywhere has that.
    
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    Bytemeister@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Gonna go out on a limb here, and guess that people living in a cabin where the electricity only works a few hours a week aren’t going to by an electric car.
    
    As for access to public chargers… I just spent the weekend in a rural area and had no problem finding a charger within 20 miles of me.
    
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fuzzzerd@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
What kind of range do you have on that? I’ve been debating installing a l2 charger because overnight charging is usually good enough. I tend to get about 15-20 miles range tops on pure electric.

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- AA5B@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  The way I explained it to my brother:
  
  technically just plug in to an existing outlet will work. Even if you didn’t keep up every day, you would get tot the weekend and make it up then
  
  but your garage already has a dryer outlet. Adapters are cheap and it will charge 4-5 times as fast
  
  but 50a level 2 charger is the same size as a stove outlet. Maybe a little longer wire run, and the “outlet” is more expensive, but it’s well worth the cost for the freedom, the flexibility, the convenience … and may even add to your house value
  
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  - Buelldozer@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    As explained in the video you can’t run 50 amps ona dryer outlet. It’s 42 amps max.
    
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    Rivalarrival@lemmy.today ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Can you cite a time stamp? I don’t want to watch a 30 minute video.
    
    I’m very curious where “42 amps max” comes from, as NEMA outlets are rated for 15A, 20A, 30A, 50A, or 60A. 42A is a rather oddball number; I’d like some context for it.
    
    Most dryer outlets are rated for 30A, NEMA 10-30, or 14-30.
    
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    AA5B@lemmy.world ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    I believe dryer outlets are typically 30a@240v. That’s a nice step up than a standard outlet and simple math shows 4x the power of 15a@120v
    
    If you have one in your garage, then you already have an outlet that can do faster charging than a standard outlet.
    
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- blitzen@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  30-35 miles, depending on the season.
  
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