Comment on Tesla paid Powerwall owners $10 million through virtual power plants

Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

• Sentau@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Where did you get the price figure from? I want to read more into it

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  • Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Calculating from cost of battery, for an about 10 kWh battery, and estimating 3650 full charge cycles which is the max for a typical estimated 10n year lifespan.
    To get more accurate numbers you need to do the calculation on the specific battery.

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    • Sentau@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      So this lifespan figure is for running a battery to 0% state of health?

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      • Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        No.

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• Wanderer@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Is that until the battery stops working or till the 10,000 cycles 10 year guarantee?

  Because there would still be life in it after that

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  • Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    It’s the estimated average lifespan of a newish Lithium battery, but you are right that the “lifespan” is often defined as 75% remaining, so there should be life in the battery after that.
    The newer sodium batteries should have way better lifespan, but I’m not sure if those are available yet.

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• houseofleft@slrpnk.net ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Even this is only kind of true! There’s markets where you’re paid to discharge into the grid, but also most countries have “baselined” markets, where using less electricity than normal at that time is considered the same as an export. Which something lime a powerwall lets you do by being flexible on when you use it vs the grid. Situations like that are pretty much straight win win.

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  • Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Even this is only kind of true!

    I don’t understand what you mean? A battery has a limited durability, and selling from battery wears the battery, the cost of that is around 5 cent. Of course it varies depending on the durability and price of the battery, if it’s an older battery, the price is higher.

    So in short, if you get less than 5 cent for selling electricity from your battery, you may be selling at less than it cost you to store that power.

    most countries have “baselined” markets, where using less electricity than normal at that time is considered the same as an export.

    I have never heard of that before, but I doubt Tesla is paying you for using less power.

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    • houseofleft@slrpnk.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Pretty likely that they might be. The logic works differently in a few different markets but essentially:

      • You demonstrate your mean usage at a given time, say 2kw
      • You trade 1kw
      • You demonstrate that you used 1kw less than normal
      • You get paid

      (obviously only in certain markets, but these are fairly widespread)

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      • Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        Our electricity consumption is monitored near real time and is available on eloverblik.dk
        Where you can log in to get a collective exact overview of import and export for every property you own or rent.
        There would never be a requirement of documenting it, because any energy company that would require that info, you would grant access to it, so the can read it automatically.

        So here by far the most normal is to pay by the hour, but we do not have credits for reduced consumption, which also IMO sounds a bit stupid, because the reduced consumption would just become the new normal.
        So I’m surprised you claim it’s widespread.

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      • houseofleft@slrpnk.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        For a real world example, Octopus energy in the UK will do this with your EV charger if you are on certain tariffs.

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• Jake_Farm@sopuli.xyz ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  How much are they paid per kWh?

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  • Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    IDK the Tesla terms, and this kind of arrangement is new where I live.
    We just get market price for the power. And that varies a lot and can even go negative. Last year our average price was about 4 cent, but I’m guessing those deals lending your battery capacity have better prices?

    For us the value of using the power from the battery ourselves is way better, as the average total price here for using the grid is almost 30 cent, because cost of using the grid ( transportation of the electricity ) and taxes are added to the market price of the electricity when we buy.

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  • reattach@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    This new version of the Tesla Virtual Power Plant actually compensates Powerwall owners $2 per kWh that they contribute to the grid during emergency load reduction events. Homeowners are expected to get between $10 and $60 per event.

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    • Jake_Farm@sopuli.xyz ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      So even taking into account the cost of degradation the homeowners still make a prophet.

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      • RvTV95XBeo@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        Image

        First hit searching for “battery Jesus”

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