Shanmugha@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Wait till you realize moral is shitty fucked up crutch that doesn’t work at best and a tool to control people at… usual, not even the worst
Yes but so what?
Humans benefit from society. You can’t have society if people go around destroying that society. You make rules and enforce them to stop that destruction. Thats morality in a nutshell.
This has been going on so long that it’s hard wired into most of us. For the psychopaths that don’t have that hardwire, we have places to put them. I.e. prisons and boardrooms.
Oh, so many things I can say in response. I will try to make it brief, though
Yes but so what?
So, for example, tons of people think themselves into depression and suicide because of some bullshit morals they have come to value more than anything else. I would rather have merciless killers to deal with, but not this kind of suffering going on around
You can’t have society if people go around destroying that society
Oh, but we do. Show me a country with empty prisons (preferably without prison-as-punishment laws even)
You make rules and enforce them to stop that destruction. Thats morality in a nutshell.
Which is plain declaring “I have failed”. Failed in building a sustainable society. Failed in producing people capable of living in a sensible way. Failed to even restrict those who I failed to mold into something not that kind of destructive. I write “I” here, because in the end, if we look back in time, for every damn “moral code rule” that got spread, taught and enforced we will track that one idiot who enabled all this bullshit
This has been going on so long that it’s hard wired into most of us.
True. And because it got wired that deep we have enormous amount of suffering, because life cares not about “right” or “wrong”
For the psychopaths that don’t have that hardwire, we have places to put them. I.e. prisons and boardrooms.
Surprise: it is possible to live without any moral conditioning and still not fall into destructive behaviour. And also, we continue to revere people who have done things far from “morally right way”. (Jesus, Krishna, Gautama to name a few most recognizable names). Today every single one of them would have ended up in a prison or mental hospital, which also speaks something about what morality actually is
You’re conflating morals with religion.
No, I toss both in the same garbage bin, while separating from what is usually referred as spiritual process. But if that is all you’ve got to say, let’s leave it at this point
Is this an anarchist perspective? Just trying to see what your broader view might be.
No, I don’t expect there to be any ready label for this. In a nutshell:
also, “good” and “bad” do not actually exist: you can vaporise whole Earth and rest of the universe won’t even notice
TLDR: So morality doesn’t exist, killing is ok, the way we teach morality to people is too simple, only physical reality matters, and actually there is a morality it’s kind of going along with a good nature balance and it’s sorta nuanced? Gotta feel it in your gut ya know? Anyway I haven’t researched any philosophy or study of ethics.
That is a word salad I could support, as dbtng already said:)
Ok, but seriously, I studied only a bit of philosophy and no ethics, and the question of discerning between objective reality and subjective observer can keep us occupied for many lifetimes, so no use in trying do dive deeper
Still in support. Reality is an illusion. Tuesdays, doubly so. A comet could wipe us all, and nothing will have essentially changed. Morals are power structures. Meaning is where you find it, because you are what brings meaning. This perspective doesn’t need a label. It’s what … is.
Thank you :) And maybe it is not. If reality is an illusion and I am only dreaming, why can’t I dream myself immortal and stop getting so sleepy in the evenings already. But yeah, a comet could wipe us all and meaning only exists in the mind of observer, this is a hill I can joyfully die on
I appreciate you giving me your candid opinion. I find some of it fascinating, from the perspective that you’re not just subscribing to some brand of nihilism or whatever.
I do agree with some of it, from a lay persons perspective. I’m no philosopher and I’m certain someone might be much more qualified to tell you all about the origins of your belief. Like you talk about some simple coping strategies like, “good and bad being inconsequential when compared to an infinitely large universe.” These are just copes we develop to reconcile the brutal nature of the world.
Getting back to morality, i think, the more we are separated from the “bad thing” that happened the harder it is to apply a moral framework around it and even if you did, trying to teach that framework on a scale that will reach everyone is mostly impossible.
So end of the day we are still just picking battles, which is usually just harm reduction.
Thank you for the reply :)
Well, trying to teach others to think like me is not something I will attempt: in the end, what I have come to think about anything is just a result of my biography, there is no point in trying to imprint it onto other people. And for the coping part, two things:
dbtng@eviltoast.org 2 weeks ago
This is a word salad that I can support.