Comment on My Thoughts on the Fosstodon Drama | Kev Quirk

VitoRobles@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

• rglullis@communick.news ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  AFAIK, it goes something like this:

  1. One moderator from fosstodon is not 100% aligned to the prevailing ideology on Fedi.
  2. Someone on Mastodon found “bad” posts from said moderator.
  3. The mob went on to presume that someone that is not 100% aligned to their prevailing ideology is unfit to be considered human - let alone a moderator - so they went after the admins.
  4. The admins claimed to have reviewed said mod actions, didn’t find anything out of the ordinary, but still got rid of them.
  5. Regardless of actions and reactions, the mob now successfully tainted the name and reputation of the instance.
  6. Less-principled users of fosstodon are now just leaving the instance, for fear of being associated with them.
  7. One of fosstodon’s admins (the author of the blog post) is now saying “Screw you guys, I’m going home to Bluesky”

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  • MysticKetchup@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    1. One moderator from fosstodon is not 100% aligned to the prevailing ideology on Fedi.

    For clarity’s sake, the views the mod expressed were:

    • Calling criticism of Mahmoud Khalil’s arrest and transfer to Louisiana “yellow journalism” for using the phrase "disappeared"
    • Defending the striking down of a school privacy policy that requires teachers get consent from LGBTQ+ kids before outing them to their parents
    • Removing posts about surveillance of LGBTQ+ people in r/privacy for contradictory or unexplained reasons

    3. The mob went on to presume that someone that is not 100% aligned to their prevailing ideology is unfit to be considered human - let alone a moderator - so they went after the admins.

    Is all criticism now a “mob” just because they don’t want people with anti-immigrant and anti-LGBTQ+ views to have the power to censor others?

    4. The admins claimed to have reviewed said mod actions, didn’t find anything out of the ordinary, but still got rid of them.

    From what I saw, the admins actually said that they were fine with keeping him on the moderation team and the mod deleted their own accounts

    6. Less-principled users of fosstodon are now just leaving the instance, for fear of being associated with them.

    Are they? The most I saw was that people were considering leaving because other instances were going to start blocking Fosstodon

    What is with the concealing and downplaying of the mod’s views and then exaggerating the “outrage” of the “mob”? Yes the Fediverse can be drama-prone but most of the fanning of the flames seems to be coming from the people complaining about Fedi users genuine criticisms of the mods/admins on Fosstodon

    I don’t think it’s unreasonable to remove mod privileges for these kinds of views if you’re trying to run an inclusive space. There’s supported suspicion that they’ve used their mod powers to censor information on minorities already, just because they haven’t done it yet on this platform doesn’t mean you let them lie in wait to do it. Makes me worry that Fosstodon admins don’t see any issues keeping someone like that around

    Would this get the same kind of backlash had the mod been kicked out for tankie views?

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    • rglullis@communick.news ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Just to respond to point (6): From the blog post, there is a link to a post from someone moving from fosstodon to hachyderm that says:

      Overall I’m satisfied with the moderation process and neutrality on Fosstodon. What to do? As a Fosstodon user, it’s hard to see any future path with the instance that works in my favor. (…) Most will never know anything about the name other than “the instance which allowed a nazi mod”. While I believe the characterization is 100% untrue and unfair, the die is cast for lots of people.
      If I stay, the likely outcomes are:

      • Limited communication with some other people, because some other instance mods will choose to block Fosstodon
      • Will have to explain my choices and the highlights of this post any time someone says “eeeww, Fosstodon”, occasionally and probably forever
      • Some people will incorrectly assume I hold certain views based on my association with fosstodon

      So, yes, at least one person is moving to another instance not because they are particularly against the admins, but for fear of being judged by association.

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  • TORFdot0@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    I don’t know if your changed your view on the issue after getting more context on carrotcypher’s histoy on Reddit but I’d like to share some of my quick thoughts

    1. I don’t think it’s probably fair to characterize him as a nazi but I do think it’s fair to find some of his views objectionable

    2. He let his personal politics influence his moderation decisions outside of posted community rules. It’s bad moderation when Lemmy.ml doesn’t it and it’s bad when he does it,

    3. Removing him as moderator is appropriate based on number 2 moreso than number 1

    4. Defederation from FOSStodon is a nuclear reaction that I don’t personally agree with but it’s a freedom that the fediverse is built on. Zealously demanding all (non-malicious) instances remain federated is a bad thing as much as zealously defederating from instances that don’t have the right politics.

    I often find myself outside the “acceptable viewpoints” on the fediverse and it hasn’t really affected me other than getting a few downvotes once in a while. The fediverse isn’t actually as ideologically pure as we think it is, I think the constant tankie/liberal drama is proof of that.

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    • rglullis@communick.news ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      I agree with almost all of your points, but I don’t think that it’s okay to normalize guilt by association, and I call them “the mob” because I see these calls for defederation less as a real concern for their safety and more of instrument to enforce compliance.

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  • veniasilente@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    So, the usual “on the Fediverse you shalln’t be anything less than immaculately perfect” crap?

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    • Binette@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      there’s a difference between not being perfect and supporting outing trans children.

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      • veniasilente@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        Yet the mob not only punishes for the former, but does it so instance-wide, needlessly tarnishing the reputation of normal users of the instance while the admins moderated that problem on their own.

        Punishing people by transitivity only gets communities so far.

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    • baines@lemmy.cafe ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      don’t openly be a biggot doesn’t seem that hard

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      • lambalicious@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        I understand the concern to be honest. The problem here is that when someone is a bigot and they are at least reasonable enough to walk themselves out, the response of the community is to stain everyone else by association.

        Trust is not associative, and tbh distrust probably should also not be.

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    • rglullis@communick.news ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      The 11th commandment.

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  • reseller_pledge609@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    4. The admins claimed to have reviewed said mod actions, didn’t find anything out of the ordinary, but still got rid of them.

    My understanding was that this mod’s accounts disappeared from everywhere (including Reddit), not just Fosstodon. So, I think they deleted their accounts themselves to avoid the backlash or something.

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• Cheradenine@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Some kind of mod drama

  In recent days, there has been a minor furor across the fediverse related to one of the moderators at fosstodon

  From the link in the link

  coreysnipes.com/thoughts-on-fosstodon.html

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