Comment on Unlike in movies, most smart people aren't good in chess.

Flamekebab@piefed.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

• warbond@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Chess is a logic puzzle that changes as you play it, with the randomness coming from player interaction. If you’re not into solving those kinds of puzzles, you’re probably not going to have fun.

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  • Flamekebab@piefed.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Pretty much the problem. It's very pure but I find that puts me off rather than draws me in. I kind of have the same problem with Quake 3!

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    • warbond@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I find that I don’t like full games of chess, but chess.com has these little chess puzzles that highlight the surprising deviousness of the rules that can turn a sure defeat into a swift victory.

      They also have an algorithmic engine that will calculate the general effectiveness of each move so you can get instant feedback, which I like.

      I guess I need more focus in the things I play, and chess is just too broad as a game.

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• WhatsTheHoldup@lemmy.ml ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I’m sure there’s some elegant simplicity in

  There is! It can get REALLY cool once you get just a bit inro it.

  Chess doesn’t feel like a gateway to other, more fun games, and if it’s not a fun game for me, why would I pursue it? I’m fairly sure it doesn’t build skills that translate to anything else.

  If you’ve never learned how to read, then while you’re learning it’s difficult to imagine reading books for fun.

  If I don’t enjoy stumbling on pronunciations and having to look up the meaning of words, then how will I ever enjoy books?

  Well books aren’t about getting stuck in the pronunciation, you can only really start enjoying reading after you’ve already learned how and the built in rules and patterns are things you understand and can play with.

  It’s up to you whether to put in the effort to learn to read, but for someone who hasn’t yet learned to say they “don’t like reading”. Sorry but you havent actually experienced what reading for fun actually is yet.

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  • Flamekebab@piefed.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I really don't buy this comparison at all. I think a better comparison would be to JRPGs - "it gets fun after 30 hours!"
    There's also the presumption that a game like chess must be fun and everyone will definitely enjoy it.
    I'm really glad you enjoy it, I find it irritating that I don't. However if the basics of it don't draw me in, and I see no ancillary value in learning how to play it to a higher level, why would I continue?
    The world is full of enjoyable diversions and not everything is for everyone. I enjoy playing football (as in soccer) but find watching it to be awful. If I invested enough time I could perhaps find myself engaged enough in the bigger picture, care about the minutia, but why? There's so many other things I found enjoyable from the outset. Reading included.

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    • TempermentalAnomaly@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I’m really at a lose about how what you wrote addresses their analogy. You just say that you don’t buy it and that the basics should draw you in.

      Don’t get me wrong. You don’t have to like chess. I don’t particularly like chess, but I know the basics and know that I have to play a lot of games to get to the enjoyable part. In that way, their analogy is apt.

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      • SexualPolytope@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        I’m not the guy you’re replying to, but it is a bad analogy since learning to read a language leads to more exciting things, even if you don’t enjoy reading books. You can communicate, do science, watch movies with subs etc. But learning chess does not make you good at anything else. (Tbh, I’m speaking out of my ass here, and will stand corrected if presented with research claiming otherwise.)

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    • WhatsTheHoldup@lemmy.ml ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I think that’s a much worse comparison tbh.

      There’s no presumption that a game like chess must be fun, all I said is that we are unable to objectively judge whether chess is fun or not before we’ve learned the rules and memorized common openings.

      However if the basics of it don’t draw me in, and I see no ancillary value in learning how to play it to a higher level, why would I continue?

      You shouldn’t. No one’s telling you to do things you don’t like. I’m just saying don’t accuse reading of being “unfun” because you hate learning grammer and punctuation.

      If you say “i don’t see the value in reading so it’s not worth it struggling through the unfun part of learning grammer” then we have no issue. See the difference?

      If I invested enough time I could perhaps find myself engaged enough in the bigger picture, care about the minutia, but why?

      You’re focusing on the wrong question.

      If it is possible to invest enough time that it becomes fun, then why are you trying to insist that thing is inherently just unfun.

      It’s unfun at the level you’re at, but the next level is a completely different game.

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      • Flamekebab@piefed.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        all I said is that we are unable to objectively judge whether chess is fun or not before we've learned the rules and memorized common openings.

        At no point did I seek to judge it objectively.

        I have played some chess at various points throughout my life. My subjective judgement is that it didn't grab me, unlike many, many other games. It might well have some divine beauty to it but the subjective barrier to entry is far too high. I also don't bother with TV shows that "get good in the second season" or endure multiple chapters of tedium before bailing on a book.

        I'm just saying don't accuse reading of being "unfun" because you hate learning grammer and punctuation.

        You're now putting words in my mouth.

        At what point did I state anything other than a subjective opinion?

        In fact I went out of my way to make it abundantly clear that these are my opinions and not a judgement on the game as a whole.

        It's unfun at the level you're at, but the next level is a completely different game.
        I'm not saying you have to go to the next level, just stop judging it based on the current level.

        If this thread is anything to go by, I wish I'd played even less chess than I already have. Sorry that I'm enjoying my hobbies wrong?

        I have not enjoyed my limited experiences with chess. They have turned me off pursuing it further. The same is not true of many other games I've played. To me that makes chess subjectively worse than those other games.

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• seven_phone@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Elon is that you.

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  • Flamekebab@piefed.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    If you're going to throw around an insult like that I'd like to see some working. I find chess boring, I'm not a fucking fascist.

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    • vastlyimproved69@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      He was ref this www.youtube.com/watch?v=hi5ypuLXnVs

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      • Flamekebab@piefed.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Regardless it's an insult I wouldn't throw at anyone other than a fascist.

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