The level of authority that you’re speaking with about another country’s culture while clearly only having a surface-level understanding is actually wild. Maybe accept that the Americans who are telling you otherwise have more knowledge and understanding of their own culture.
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sykaster@feddit.nl 1 week agoYour comparison between “European vs Dutch” and “American vs Irish-American” is fundamentally flawed.
Nationality vs ancestry are different concepts. Dutch is my current nationality, defined by citizenship, language, culture, and shared social experience. Being “Dutch-Norwegian” would mean I hold dual citizenship or were raised in both cultural contexts simultaneously. Most Americans claiming to be “Irish-American” have no citizenship, language fluency, or authentic cultural immersion in Ireland.
The cultural disconnect is stark. What Americans call “Italian-American culture” has diverged dramatically from actual Italian culture over generations. It’s become a distinctly American phenomenon with superficial cultural markers rather than authentic representation. When Irish-Americans visit Ireland, locals often view them as simply American tourists because the cultural gap is so evident.
With each generation, the cultural connection weakens substantially. By the third or fourth generation, what remains is often reduced to stereotypical elements like celebrating St. Patrick’s Day or eating pasta on Sundays. This selective cultural picking isn’t equivalent to genuine cultural identity.
European identity framework differs fundamentally. In Europe, identity is primarily based on where you were born and raised, your language, and your lived experience – not distant ancestry.
Many Americans who claim hyphenated identities have minimal knowledge of their ancestral country’s modern culture, politics, or social realities. They cling to outdated or stereotypical notions that no longer reflect the actual country.
Comparing a continental identity (European) to a national one (Dutch) is not the same as comparing a national identity (American) to a hyphenated ancestral one (Irish-American). The Netherlands exists within Europe; “Irish-American” does not represent a legitimate political or cultural subset of America in the same way.
half_fiction@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 week ago
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 week ago
Americans totally have more knowledge and understanding of their own culture.
Irish-Americans have very little knowledge and understanding of Irish culture
half_fiction@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 week ago
Right, and Irish-Americans have more knowledge and understanding about Irish-American culture.
The other poster was making it seem like American culture is homogenous or like descendants of immigrants can’t still retain distinct cultural traditions and identities outside of generic American. Whether or not those traditions are the same as the original country of origin is immaterial. Nobody is claiming that it is.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 week ago
I suspect the Irish part of that description is highly misleading.
In 2025, is Irish-American culture anything more than wearing green on “St. Pattys” day and supporting Boston Celtics?
sykaster@feddit.nl 1 week ago
I understand the cultural grouping that happens when large migrant communities form. What I don’t understand is why Americans portray themselves as Dutch when coming to the Netherlands. Their customs, language, culture, and nationality are different. They’re not Dutch whatsoever.
Use it to identify yourselves within the USA, that makes sense. Don’t use it to claim being part of a culture that you know nothing about.
half_fiction@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 week ago
What I don’t understand is why Americans portray themselves as Dutch when coming to the Netherlands.
Do they, though? Are there really that many Americans who think or try to pretend they are actually Dutch, instead of Americans who are have Dutch ancestry?
It honestly sounds like they are just trying to connect by sharing a commonality and something that is (probably) important to them in some way. It’s an expression of appreciation. Even if the cultural traditions carried on in the US are different than in the modern-day country–so what? It doesnt make those cultural traditions less important to the people who celebrate them. I fail to understand what is wrong with acknowledging or appreciating where those traditions originated.
Is it just a matter of semantics and an objection to the label itself “(whatever nationality)-American”?
rishado@lemmy.world 1 week ago
They actually seem to be quite educated on the topic. Unlike yourself who seems to think that you’d have authority to speak on this issue because you have a certain passport? It’s really not that wild. I moved here as a first generation immigrant about 10 years ago & I pretty much concur what they are saying. Irish and American Italians in Boston and NJ respectively feel that they have more in common with their ‘home’ countrymen than fellow Americans, just one example. Personally I think there’s also an aspect of “oh I’m not just white, I’m actually 1/8 Irish”. Mind you that’s not what I think at all, why would I have a bias against you if you are white? But it’s almost like I’m asked to view them as more than “white American” when people tell me that stuff after I tell them where I’m from. You can imagine what their answers typically were when I asked about whether they often go back to visit family/home or foods they cook. It’s just ancestry, they have no actual ties to those lands.
One thing I will say though is that whenever I’d talk about this kind of thing is that people get weirdly defensive about it. Overall I learned just to let them say what they want to say, it’s not worth my energy trying to understand their mental gymnastics as to why they’re actually as Irish as I am Egyptian. They’re not ready or willing to have that conversation.
triptrapper@lemmy.world 1 week ago
OP wasn’t arguing that Italian-American culture necessarily resembles Italian culture. Of course they’re different. You’re implying that the concept of “Italian-American culture” is superficial or illegitimate because it differs from the way that Europeans talk about international or intergenerational identities, and that’s some prescriptivist bullshit. “Genuine cultural identity”? Get out of here.
4am@lemm.ee 1 week ago
He literally said “American culture is different from its EU origins and therefore we call it out differently”
And then you said “nah since you’re American it’s all fake as fuck you’re just once large homogenous group”
Yeah ok and you chain-smoking bullfighters need to get your Lederhosen fitted at…wait, that doesn’t make sense? EU is different places with different cultures? No wayyyyyy 🤡