my argument automatically has no merit without you hearing any of it

I did read both of your comments in full and think about them, but if you have more specific thoughts on why you hold the perspective you do I’d be open to hearing them :) (full disclosure though, it might take me a bit to get back to you- with how much I’ve engaged with this thread I’m starting to kinda run out of social energy 😅)

I guess Ben Shapiro argues with people that aren’t media trained to make his stance look better, do you want me to say people Ben Shapiro argues make some awesome argument all the time without exception?

Its a little hard to follow exactly what you mean towards the end, I think there are a couple typos, but no. I just personally see a distinction between productive conversation and making a game of humiliating people buy talking circles around them regardless of the merits of their arguments.

I can’t know that you exactly meant the latter, but it’s kind of a spectrum and it did sound like you were advocating the idea that it’s appropriate to take joy in making people feel foolish for their inability to argue as well as you. I think there’s a big difference between the merits of a stance and someone’s ability to argue them. That’s why I expressed I disagreed. And that’s why I made the connection to Ben shapio, he’s really good at arguing, and makes sport of trying to make people look bad when they make the sort of arguments I personally agree with.

I’ll teach you that it’s not on me to make your arguments, get your evidence. I just put it on myself to communicate my arguments and poke holes in other people’s arguments

I think I see argument as much less of a zero sum game than you do. I don’t wanna score points, I wanna learn about what people think and teach them why I think differently.

You’re not wrong to point out flaws in peoples arguments, or to expect them to make their case for themselves, but that’s not the same thing as treating it like a game to win. I think the former is appropriate and healthy, I think the latter is destructive and doesn’t actually accomplish anything 🤷‍♂️