Comment on Great ATProto blog post on the reasoning behind their design architecture

• Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  ATProto is not decentralized.

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  • Sl00k@programming.dev ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Would love to know why you think it’s not?

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    • Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Because it’s not functional without BSky servers and BSky also controls moderation.

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      • Sl00k@programming.dev ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        This is just wrong. Another platform similar to tiktok(spark) is in beta with their own infrastructure outside of all Bluesky servers and they have to deal with their own moderation. They can choose to read in any Bluesky data they please and bluesky can do the same with theirs.

        If Bluesky shuts down all servers tomorrow they still exist. The federation is simply adopting their Lexicon into your relay and appview.

        If you want a microblogging platform specifically you can easily run your own infrastructure similar to running an instance, intake all BlueSky posts and if Bluesky shuts down your app will continue operating using BlueSkys lexicon, however you’ll have to manage your own moderation.

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      • Little8Lost@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        After reading the article i think you might be wrong with this one.

        From what i got now is that there are 3 layers

        First is storage which can be completly or is decentralised

        Then backend/server/application layer which can be bsky or whatever ticktok alternative gets made which is not decentralised

        and then user layer/view which depends on the application

        What i want to say is that the relay can be exchanged through something else

        So pro atProto is:

        • data seems to be actually decentralised
        • applications sharing the data
        • everyone gets the data

        And pro ActivityPub is:

        • more alternatives of the same application/server
        • way better control over data (federation & defederation)
        • servers interact with each other nativly (atPr seems to let the servers only interact with data)
        • more efficient (servers can update clients, in case of at least bsky clients have to ask servers)

        pro ActivityPub? (unsure about the technical details)

        • moderation? As in shared lists
        • able to host by individuals? As in i dont need an compute intensive relay

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• mesamunefire@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  ATProto isnt the same protocol as activityhub which is what we are using to post/communicate between different instances.

  You would argue that its all REST I suppose?

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  • Sl00k@programming.dev ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Instead of being a patronizing ass, how about let’s have some discussion about

    The ultimate goal of this subreddit is a fully decentralized social media landscape.

    And how ATProto is not accomplishing this / what they can be doing differently than what’s outlined in their blog post

    Or a counter argument to

    Fracturing discussion between ActivityPub and ATProto helps no one, especially in niche communities like this.

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    • mesamunefire@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      A community to talk about the Fediverse and all it’s related services using ActivityPub

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• Zaktor@sopuli.xyz ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Neither this community’s sidebar nor Wikipedia agree with your definition.

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  • Sl00k@programming.dev ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    The literal first line of Wikipedia agrees with me?

    The Fediverse (commonly shortened to fedi)[4][5][6] is a collection of social networking services that can communicate with each other (formally known as federation) using a common protocol.

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    • Zaktor@sopuli.xyz ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Read on to literally the next paragraph, which says Diaspora is the only still developed platform that matches the original definition and does not use ActivityPub, or to the section that explicitly calls ATProto a Fediverse alternative.

      The first paragraph is descriptive of the Fediverse, not a test for whether something is part of it. The Internet is a collection of computers communicating via TCP/IP. That doesn’t mean any two computers communicating over TCP/IP are now part of the Internet.

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      • Sl00k@programming.dev ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        We’re just arguing semantics just to argue at this point.

        I can say how the paragraph says the majority of Fediverse platforms operate on ActivityPub and how ATProto is not within that majority at the moment.

        Or I can say yes Diaspora is the only one that matches the original definition, but what is the definition now?

        But a much better conversation is why we’re trying to fracture our conversations around decentralized social media? The data is open and can be bridged. At that point are both protocols the Fediverse? Why are we digging ourselves into a whole here on the Activitypub side and refusing to discuss how we can further the Fediverse and decentralization?

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