Comment on Netanyahu Promises the “Final Stage” of Gaza Genocide Will Lead to Implementation of “Trump’s Plan"

• WhatsTheHoldup@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I’m a lib but I want to have a dialogue that’s less shit throwing and more genuine.

  Just because someone is against Harris/the Democrats does not automatically mean they are in support of Trump/the Republicans.

  Agreed.

  This might come as a surprise to you, but we hate Trump and the GOP, too.

  Not a surprise, totally know that and appreciate you guys for it.

  We’re just not under any illusions that the Democrats are going to fix anything.

  So neither am I, but I feel frustrated because we need to be protesting and making noise on this issue.

  Its frustrating because our shared goal is to end the genocide, but you guys by staying home that election sabotaged this goal for us both and made the genocide worse than before.

  If you focus on the material conditions of Gaza and think “which vote is going to lead to less Gazan lives lost” voting for Kamala seemed like a no brainer.

  It’s only when you bring your own ego into it “well I will never support genocide” that comes across like you’re willing to sacrifice Gazan lives to feel self righteous.

  Had many of these tankies voted Kamala instead of staying home it would be so mucy easier to form a protest and get the pressure cooking on the dems

  But because they stayed home (regardless of justification you might have) we’ve now lost the right to protest and many university students, scientists and academics are being disappeared into the night for speaking out.

  This simply would not have happened under Kamala.

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  • Rom@hexbear.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    but you guys by staying home that election sabotaged this goal for us both and made the genocide worse than before

    Democrats lost all on their own. A bunch of fringe internet shitposters do not have anywhere near enough power to sway an election lol.

    The genocide was already bad under Democrats. No, we didn’t forget that Genocide Joe sent Israel hundreds of shipments of weapons.

    If you focus on the material conditions of Gaza and think “which vote is going to lead to less Gazan lives lost” voting for Kamala seemed like a no brainer.

    Voting for Democrats would not have lead to fewer Gazan lives lost, because, again, the Democrats don’t give a fuck about Gazan lives.

    It’s only when you bring your own ego into it “well I will never support genocide” that comes across like you’re willing to sacrifice Gazan lives to feel self righteous about your values.

    Please look in a mirror.

    Had many of these tankies voted Kamala instead of staying home it would be so mucy easier to form a protest and get the pressure cooking on the dems

    No amount of pressure is going to change the Dem’s minds. They do not give a fuck about you and never have.

    But because they stayed home (regardless of justification you might have) we’ve now lost the right to protest and many university students, scientists and academics are being disappeared into the night for speaking out.

    Leftists did not cost the Democrats the election, Democrats just suck.

    This simply would not have happened under Kamala.

    It was already happening under Biden.

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    • WhatsTheHoldup@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Democrats lost all on their own by pretending the economy was fine despite everyone clearly noticing it was not, and continuing to double down on supporting a deeply unpopular genocide. There are by far not enough ‘tankies’ in the US to sway an election like that. If we had that kind of power we’d be pushing our own party instead. 90 million people didn’t vote in 2024, what are a couple thousand at most terminally online leftists compared to that?

      Yes they did, and they’re to blame for terrible messaging and gatekeeping democracy to force Kamala as the candidate without voter input.

      90 million people didn’t vote in 2024, what are a couple thousand at most terminally online leftists compared to that?

      OP threw out tankie as a bad faith term and we just kept using it

      I assume when we say ‘tankies’ we’re using the term as OP originally did, ie anyone who abstained from voting for Kamala because they don’t support genocide?

      Those are the people I’m talking about, not terminally online people.

      The genocide was already bad under Democrats. No, we didn’t forget that Genocide Joe sent Israel hundreds of shipments of weapons and supported them full-heartedly in their slaughter of the Palestinian people.

      Yes. Joe was sending weapons to aid the genocide. That’s terrible and no excuse.

      In light of comparing him to Trump though, Biden tried to set up a dock to distribute aid to Gazans when Israel tried to block it and continually threatened to stop sending these weapons if Israel bombed certain regions or were undertaking operations with crazy high civilian casualties.

      Trump’s policy is “let them bomb” and deporting people who disagree.

      If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

      Voting for Democrats would not have lead to fewer Gazan lives lost, because the Democrats don’t give a fuck about Gazan lives. Biden was already giving them all the weapons they needed, and Harris made no indication she was going to change course. Harris would have enabled the genocide same as Trump.

      Okay, that’s a genuine argument if true.

      I just am shocked you’d say that. I already demonstrated that Democrats care at least slightly more than Trump. Do you need a source for Biden providing aid and pressuring for Israel to deescalate while also funding them?

      My god please take a step back and look at yourself. Examine your views and have an ounce of introspection.

      I have, but I agree I should continue doing so going forward.

      It is important to think hard on our values and that goes both ways.

      So what protests are you going to? What are you doing to put pressure on the Dems?

      I’m in Canada so I don’t have much I can do about US politics unfortunately unless you have some suggestions.

      Our government put an arms embargo on Israel so we aren’t supposed to be funding them but as of 3 days ago apparently that promise is broken so going forward that’s an open question.

      I am boycotting American goods, and I have a recurring donation to the food bank to help bring aid to Gazans and other starving people.

      If your point is that I could do more, you’re certainly right. I’ll think on that.

      Leftists did not cost the Democrats the election, Democrats just suck. Harris got 68 million votes in 2024 to Biden’s 81 million.

      Yeah, they threw the election seemingly on purpose because transitionary president Biden who we already voted in as the lesser of two evils just to stop Trump’s second term decided he would take up space and prevent new candidates from stepping forward.

      It was already happening under Biden, you were just content to ignore it.

      I’m not content to ignore it, it wasn’t happening.

      Show me 3 examples of university students having their green card revoked for attending a protest under Bidens administration and I will apologize.

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      • Rom@hexbear.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        The Democrats dropped a candy bar on the ground and Trump shit on the floor. They then asked what I wanted for dinner.

        Why can Democrats only offer candy bars for dinner when we need fresh fruits, vegetables, and actually healthy foods? Not to belabor the analogy, but the Democrats either don’t know what the right things to do are, or they do know but they don’t care. Do either of those options sound like a party that anyone should vote for?

        I assume when we say ‘tankies’ we’re using the term as OP originally did, ie anyone who abstained from voting for Kamala because they don’t support genocide?

        ‘Tankies’ doesn’t mean anything, it’s a vibes word for “someone to the left of me I don’t like.” And most of the people who didn’t vote in 2024 aren’t leftist, because the American populace just isn’t.

        I did not vote Democrat in 2024 because the Democrats are not entitled to my vote by pretending to be less awful than the other team. I did not vote Democrat anywhere on the ticket because I refuse to be complicit in genocide. That is the hard moral line I am taking. There is no excuse for genocide.

        In light of comparing him to Trump though, Biden tried to set up a dock to distribute aid to Gazans when Israel tried to block it and continually threatened to stop sending these weapons if Israel bombed certain regions or were undertaking operations with crazy high civilian casualties.

        Note that at no point did he stop sending weapons, the one action he could have taken at any time to actually stop the extermination. He did not want the genocide to stop.

        And the dock was a joke that was never going to accomplish anything.

        Trump’s policy is “let them bomb” and deporting people who disagree.

        Evidently Biden’s policy was also “let them bomb,” as shown by the at least 14,000 tons of bombs he sent Netanyahu. And Biden deported more people than Trump 1.

        Do you need a source for Biden providing aid and pressuring for Israel to deescalate while also funding them?

        I don’t need a source to know that if he wanted to deescalate he could have just stopped sending them weapons at any time.

        That’s not an excuse not to protest, but it is hypocritical of you guys to cause it to be much more risky to protest by allowing Trump to win and then try to blame others for not taking the risk.

        We “caused it”? We “allowed Trump to win”? Who do you think your audience is? Nobody here voted for Trump. Unless you’re equating “not voting for Harris” with “voting for Trump” which is just baby-brained nonsense. The only thing that’s a vote for Trump is a vote for Trump.

        I am boycotting American goods, and I have a recurring donation to the food bank to help bring aid to Gazans and other starving people.

        Legitimately way more useful than voting.

        Show me 3 examples

        No

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