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Comment on dear republicans, what's the point of alienating every single ally of the US?

God, you really can’t stop injecting this hyper-partisan moralizing. Every point you raised here is about morality which I wasn’t talking about at all.

Even under clowns like Trump, the US press is more free than Russia’s.

Which again raises the question of why Russian propaganda is so much more effective in the Western media environment where they can’t censor things or control shit than Western propaganda is. See, you’re distracted by saying, “Russia is the bad guy” that you’re losing sight of the actual question.

I wouldn’t use the trash that Trump pulls as valid examples of how the West acts

Other than that, try not to fetch US examples from the cold war

No present or historical examples then, got it.

When did the US reform and change it’s ways? Did a president stand up to the CIA and tell them to cut it out? Which one, when? Was anyone in the intelligence community held accountable for their actions and actually punished? Who, when?

Or did the US stop doing evil stuff right around the window of time where documents would not yet be declassified?

Putting aside all of that, even if I accepted your absurd constraints, I also raised points that fit your criteria, regarding the war in Iraq. Things that track with a consistent pattern of behavior before and after.

Russian kleptocracy aligns more with its population and doesn’t represent the interests of the rich?

I never said anything like that. What I said is that Russian kleptocracy is less directly opposed to the interests of the American people than the US kleptocracy is. The Russian oligarchs don’t suppress our wages, bust our unions, and gouge our prices, not because there’s any kind of moral difference but because they’re not in a position to do so. The American oligarchs are the ones with both the means and motive to hurt the American people, they are, therefore, the primary enemy of the people, moreso than Russian oligarchs are to us.

Because they’re destroying democracies in your region.

In “my region?” My region is about as far away from Ukraine as it’s possible to be on planet Earth.

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zenitsu@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

Which again raises the question of why Russian propaganda is so much more effective in the Western media environment where they can’t censor things or control shit than Western propaganda is. See, you’re distracted by a need to say, “Russia is the bad guy” that you’re losing sight of the actual question.

No, you’re just asking dumb shit for the sake of asking it. The West just isn’t shitting out propaganda on its population the way Russia is, it’s not hard to understand.

The Russian oligarchs don’t suppress our wages, bust our unions, and gouge our prices, not because there’s any kind of moral difference but because they’re not in a position to do so.

They don’t because they’re not in charge of your fucking country. But they do all that shit and worse to their own population. Russian kleptocracy is incomparably worse to whatever equivalent you want to draw in the US. Wtf are you on about.

In “my region?” My region is about as far away from Ukraine as it’s possible to be on planet Earth.

Which might explain why you’re so blissfully ignorant of the Russian scourge.

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- Objection@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  
  No, you’re just asking dumb shit for the sake of asking it. The West just isn’t shitting out propaganda on its population the way Russia is, it’s not hard to understand.
  
  A KGB agent visits America and meets a CIA agent, and says, “I’m so excited to learn from the American methods of propaganda!” The CIA agent responds, “What? But in America, we have no propaganda!” KGB agent says, “Yes! Exactly like that!”
  
  I already cited numerous examples of US propaganda and dinsinformation which included ones that fit your arbitrary criteria of neither too recent nor too old. There’s also shit like this recruitment ad that’s pretty open and explicit about manipulating public opinion. It’s also just a completely absurd idea, we don’t do propaganda because, what, we’re “the good guys?” Not how the world works lol.
  
  They don’t because they’re not in charge of your fucking country.
  
  Please stop telling me things I just told you.
  
  But they do all that shit and worse to their own population.
  
  But I’m not part of that population.
  
  Again, you’re misunderstanding me. I’m in no way claiming a moral difference between Russian and American billionaires, I’m merely pointing out that the more direct enemy of the American people are the set of billionaires with the means and motive to exploit us, namely, American billionaires.
  
  Which might explain why you’re so blissfully ignorant of the Russian scourge.
  
  More importantly, it would explain why Americans were always bound to lose interest in the conflict and give up on it, we just had to waste a bunch of blood and treasure on the conflict pretending otherwise first.
  
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  - zenitsu@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    
    I already cited numerous examples of US propaganda and dinsinformation which included ones that fit your arbitrary criteria of neither too recent nor too old.
    
    I don’t remember you citing anything that falls into the criteria, which isn’t arbitrary btw, it should be obvious that it’s fucking stupid to rely on examples from decades ago if you’re comparing it to another nations current actions.
    
    here’s also shit like this recruitment ad that’s pretty open and explicit about manipulating public opinion.
    
    Are you actually comparing a recruitment ad to Russia’s media manipulation and crackdowns? kill me
    
    It’s also just a completely absurd idea, we don’t do propaganda because, what, we’re “the good guys?” Not how the world works lol, incredibly naive take.
    
    Good thing I didn’t say any of that shit. If you could stop building strawmen out of my arguments because you can’t actually tackle any of them, that would be great.
    
    Please stop telling me things I just told you. Literally in the part you quoted and were responding to, I said, “because they’re not in a position to do so.”
    
    Then stop saying stupid shit if you’re not making any substantive points? What’s the point of saying they don’t do shit to you because they’re not in a position to do so? wow, thanks for the enlightening insight.
    
    But I’m not part of that population.
    
    Bro, this is about YOU. If you want to objectively compare how each government treats their own population, then the fact that the other government doesn’t affect YOU isn’t fucking relevant you moron.
    
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    Objection@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    
    I don’t remember you citing anything that falls into the criteria,
    
    COVID misinformation in the Philippines? The rampant lies leading up to the Iraq War? Those things fit your criteria.
    
    Also, don’t try to pretend that you’re only excluding historical examples, you’re also excluding recent examples, because “Trump isn’t representative of America.” Who knows what you’ll exclude next, maybe Bush isn’t representative either because he lied and that contradicts your worldview.
    
    Then stop saying stupid shit if you’re not making any substantive points? What’s the point of saying they don’t do shit to you because they’re not in a position to do so? wow, thanks for the enlightening insight.
    
    If you were able to shut down the hyper-partisan moralistic urge to constantly opine on who the “good guys” and “bad guys” are long enough to actually listen to anything I’m saying and look at reality as it is, then you’d understand my point. As it is, you’ve missed it completely.
    
    I’m not interested in discussing, like, who’s more likely to get into fucking heaven. Christ. It’s completely and totally irrelevant to the conversation.
    
    If one person has a gun pressed against my head, and another person doesn’t, then I’m more concerned about the guy with the gun against my head than the other guy. Maybe the other guy is a worse person, maybe the guy with a gun to my head volunteers at the soup kitchen every day and the other guy kicks puppies, but my concern is removing the gun from my head.
    
    What I’m saying is that American billionaires have a gun to the head of the American people in a way that Russian billionaires don’t. And your response is to talk about how the Russian billionaires are bad people. Completely irrelevant to the conversation.
    
    Bro, this isn’t about YOU
    
    Yeah, it’s not about me specifically. It’s about my class, which has the same material interests as me. If you want to write off my class because it’s “not about us” then good luck in the next election.
    
    If you want to objectively compare how each government treats their own population
    
    I don’t, thanks. Why would I? I’m interested in pursuing political objectives that help me and my class. I’m not interested in “”“objective”“” moralistic goals.
    
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