Comment on dear republicans, what's the point of alienating every single ally of the US?
zenitsu@sh.itjust.works 2 days agoBut the group of people we were talking about about being influenced was Americans, so it would be fairly natural to assume that I was talking about them influencing our own population, or that I was leaving it ambiguous. If you wanted to jump to the conclusion otherwise, you should’ve clarified.
If your statements are ambiguous then, don’t be surprise if people pick one of the more obvious possible meanings. I’m not the one who has to clarify your statements. Regardless, nothing changes. Russian influences both their domestic and western populations more than the West influences their domestic or Russian populations. The West has freedom of information flows the likes of which the Russians have never known in their whole useless, pillaging, and degenerate existence. Even under clowns like Trump, the US press is more free than Russia’s.
the US government was spreading COVID/vaccine disinformation in the Philippines.
I wouldn’t use the trash that Trump pulls as valid examples of how the West acts, US leaders don’t typically threaten allies with takeover or bend over to Russia. He’s indisputably an anti-western piece of shit that falls into the same bucket as Putin. Other than that, try no to fetch US examples from the cold war as valid comparisons to contemporary actors like Putin, otherwise it just seems like you’re stretching. It’s been generations, expectations of international behavior aren’t the same.
Furthermore, these intelligence agencies have interests that are more directly contrary to the American people than the Russian government does. They represent the interests of the rich, and the US rich are the most direct and primary enemy of the US poor.
Really? Russian kleptocracy aligns more with it’s population and doesn’t represent the interests of the rich? The country that still lacks indoor plumbing for ~20% of the population? Good one.
We should only worry about a less well-funded, less connected intelligence community with less directly opposed interests, because, what? They’re foreigners?
Because they’re destroying democracies in your region. “less directly opposed interests”? only if you’re a vatnik lmao. If you are though, feel free to buy the first ticket to Moscovia.
Objection@lemmy.ml 2 days ago
God, you really can’t stop injecting this hyper-partisan moralizing. Every point you raised here is about morality which I wasn’t talking about at all.
Which again raises the question of why Russian propaganda is so much more effective in the Western media environment where they can’t censor things or control shit than Western propaganda is. See, you’re distracted by saying, “Russia is the bad guy” that you’re losing sight of the actual question.
No present or historical examples then, got it.
When did the US reform and change it’s ways? Did a president stand up to the CIA and tell them to cut it out? Which one, when? Was anyone in the intelligence community held accountable for their actions and actually punished? Who, when?
Or did the US stop doing evil stuff right around the window of time where documents would not yet be declassified?
Putting aside all of that, even if I accepted your absurd constraints, I also raised points that fit your criteria, regarding the war in Iraq. Things that track with a consistent pattern of behavior before and after.
I never said anything like that. What I said is that Russian kleptocracy is less directly opposed to the interests of the American people than the US kleptocracy is. The Russian oligarchs don’t suppress our wages, bust our unions, and gouge our prices, not because there’s any kind of moral difference but because they’re not in a position to do so. The American oligarchs are the ones with both the means and motive to hurt the American people, they are, therefore, the primary enemy of the people, moreso than Russian oligarchs are to us.
In “my region?” My region is about as far away from Ukraine as it’s possible to be on planet Earth.
zenitsu@sh.itjust.works 2 days ago
No, you’re just asking dumb shit for the sake of asking it. The West just isn’t shitting out propaganda on its population the way Russia is, it’s not hard to understand.
They don’t because they’re not in charge of your fucking country. But they do all that shit and worse to their own population. Russian kleptocracy is incomparably worse to whatever equivalent you want to draw in the US. Wtf are you on about.
Which might explain why you’re so blissfully ignorant of the Russian scourge.
Objection@lemmy.ml 2 days ago
A KGB agent visits America and meets a CIA agent, and says, “I’m so excited to learn from the American methods of propaganda!” The CIA agent responds, “What? But in America, we have no propaganda!” KGB agent says, “Yes! Exactly like that!”
I already cited numerous examples of US propaganda and dinsinformation which included ones that fit your arbitrary criteria of neither too recent nor too old. There’s also shit like this recruitment ad that’s pretty open and explicit about manipulating public opinion. It’s also just a completely absurd idea, we don’t do propaganda because, what, we’re “the good guys?” Not how the world works lol.
Please stop telling me things I just told you.
But I’m not part of that population.
Again, you’re misunderstanding me. I’m in no way claiming a moral difference between Russian and American billionaires, I’m merely pointing out that the more direct enemy of the American people are the set of billionaires with the means and motive to exploit us, namely, American billionaires.
More importantly, it would explain why Americans were always bound to lose interest in the conflict and give up on it, we just had to waste a bunch of blood and treasure on the conflict pretending otherwise first.
zenitsu@sh.itjust.works 2 days ago
I don’t remember you citing anything that falls into the criteria, which isn’t arbitrary btw, it should be obvious that it’s fucking stupid to rely on examples from decades ago if you’re comparing it to another nations current actions.
Are you actually comparing a recruitment ad to Russia’s media manipulation and crackdowns? kill me
Good thing I didn’t say any of that shit. If you could stop building strawmen out of my arguments because you can’t actually tackle any of them, that would be great.
Then stop saying stupid shit if you’re not making any substantive points? What’s the point of saying they don’t do shit to you because they’re not in a position to do so? wow, thanks for the enlightening insight.
Bro, this is about YOU. If you want to objectively compare how each government treats their own population, then the fact that the other government doesn’t affect YOU isn’t fucking relevant you moron.