Comment on First Porn, Now Skin Cream? ‘Age Verification’ Bills Are Out of Control.

cubism_pitta@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

• RandomPrivacyGuy@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  A device should be able it indicate in its browser headers whether its primary user is an adult or a minor and the service can react accordingly.

  I can already see that being used for targeting children with specific ads on the internet.

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  • cubism_pitta@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    The laws around advertising are fucked to begin with but the should actually be used in advertising 100%

    The minor flag would actually remove the LARGE gray area that platforms take advantage of to push harmful ADs and content to kids (Today they just get to play dumb)

    This would actually create a framework to enforce existing advertising laws as well as data collection laws with regards to minors.

    Examples: Minors should not see ads for holsters, knives, ammo, ED medications, Diet drugs, muscle building drugs, Alcohol, Tobacco products, Online Gambling

    These are all things I have seen advertised on YouTube to me; Granted I am not a minor but I am also just using Youtube by going to the site with no account.

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    • grooving@lemmy.studio ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      If I was an advertiser for those products I’d be pissed that my ad dollars are going non targets anyway. So it would be a win win

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      • ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        Kids are the target of gambling ads because it conditions them into thinking it’s normal

        I imagine other products see similar benefits

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      • acosmichippo@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        advertising some products to kids will probably make them future customers. tobacco/vape/gambling etc.

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• Bzdalderon@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Kids are babied already but if 14 year olds can vote in party elections, and 16 year olds can consent to sexual intercourse with adults, then I don’t think restricting porn is our problem. Either kids can make decisions, or all of these laws need to align with each other more logically.

  We have taken parents rights away to allow children to make decisions on their gender and name changes, yet we expect parent to be responsible for their actions like accessing porn.

  I could not care less about whatever the final say is on age restrictions, but if there are gonna be rules, at least make them make sense you know? I also do not love that I have to verify my identity to use the internet. Look at the UK and how that’s working out there even without IDs. Talk about authoritarian control.

  This stuff is the whole reason I switched to this platform.

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  • cubism_pitta@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    I am actually in full agreement.

    A header would put the setting on the device and only indicate “Minor” or “Not Minor” which would allow to restrict or allow porn without having to collect everyone’s PII just so they can crank their hog.

    If you read previous things though such an indicator would put a lot more responsibility onto Social Media platforms to not show harmful content with minors. Today they get away with it because “TOS says only 18 year olds are allowed to us this service”

    South Park kind of nailed the attitude en.wikipedia.org/…/South_Park_(Not_Suitable_for_C…

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    • Bzdalderon@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      But how would that header be verified?

      It has to be verified at some point by someone.

      That header could also easy be used to exploit children online. All I would need to do is a simple intercept to log headers.

      Either trust parents to do their jobs fully, and then hold them accountable, or draw a line at which point a child can be reasonably held responsible.

      If a 6 year old steals, it’s the 6 year olds fault. They’re tried differently, but they still know betters this isn’t any different.

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      • cubism_pitta@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        Sites and services today that we are considering forcing to collect PII (driver’s license) for age verification would be compelled to check the header as it would provide what these laws are chasing in a way more respectful towards privacy

        As far as exploiting children online. My point has been clear that is already happening, TikTok, Youtube, Instagram ALL exploit children online today. They do not face consequences because they can hide behind their TOS this would put responsibility with regards to not breaking our already existing laws back into their hands

        I trust parets. I have kids myself the plethora of tools and systems available to invade you kids’ privacy is great… and those are also even way worse than a header (especially when you consider what they do to work)

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  • LeninsOvaries@lemmy.cafe ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    We have taken parents rights away to allow children to make decisions on their gender and name changes, yet we expect parent to be responsible for their actions like accessing porn.

    That’s not a contradiction. Gender and name are about who the child is. Porn is about who the child wants to imagine having sex with. One of them, 99% of children are perfectly capable of making a good decision on. One of them can potentially be traumatising, and certainly isn’t absolutely necessary for a good life and healthy development.

    That said, it’s not the government’s job to control it. An “I am 18” button and a lesson in health class are enough.

    If porn sites must be legislated, here’s a better way: force them to display information to users on unrealistic depictions, the dangers of underage sex, and counselling resources.

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    • Bzdalderon@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      We disagree on the foundation of your argument, and that’s okay. The end state, I can 100% get behind and that’s some common ground.

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• General_Effort@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  These ideas are all fundamentally misguided. Let’s take a step back what we are trying to do here: We want to create a system so that the government can withhold certain information from certain people. That’s both difficult and dangerous.

  PornHub’s idea requires cooperation from the hosters. You are not likely to get global agreement on that. So you will still need to do something about those foreign sites, such as blocking them.

  At that point, such a law would achieve 2 things:

  1. Society has decided to create a technical censorship infrastructure.
  2. Domestic porn providers have an incentive to support to it because it removes foreign competition.

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  Blocklists that parents can install on their devices already exist, so there would be no change in that regard.

  Of course, minors have no trouble circumventing such software. They have plenty of time and they are horny. You can’t win. The only faint hope might be to include such features at deeper levels, similar to existing DRM schemes. This would be ripe for abuse by bad actors or governments. It certainly would be used against the consumer by the copyright industry and tech monopolies; just like existing DRM schemes.

  So we really should ask why we would want to walk further down this expensive, hostile, and dangerous path. Are we afraid that masturbation causes blindness?

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  • cubism_pitta@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Government in this case is forcing sites to collect PII to verify age not blocking content not blocking content themselves.

    I am working under the knowledge that these age verifications are not theoretical (Its the end game of all the KYC startups from last decade)

    If you are in the south in much of the US these ID checks are already forced and will only expand

    A browser header gives the result without building a Database of people who like porn

    Browser headers also put the responsibility on sites that promote dangerous things to kids (its in your best interest as a site that can deliver porn, things not suitable for kids to check and respect the header from a liability perspective)

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• slacktoid@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  What’s gonna stop a pedo from changing the headers to child so that they can access the child internet where all the children are? Like it’s not a great solution to me.

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  • Quill7513@slrpnk.net ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    your understanding of what the proposed header solution is is way off base. “protecting the kids” isn’t about keeping adults from interacting with kids in online forums, it’s about keeping the kids from accidentally seeing porn (really it’s about making the lives of sex workers more dangerous). think of it like a tv v-chip but for the internet, not as a nightclub bouncer creating two different online communities and making sure they don’t interact with eachother

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  • dojan@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    The same thing that’s stopping pedophiles today of course.

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  • emr@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    The idea isn’t to let sites restrict adults, just let them restrict kids. So there wouldn’t be a child internet.

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    • slacktoid@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Then what’s to stop a kid from spoofing the adult headers? Wouldn’t that make the whole thing needlessly complicated?

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      • Screamium@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        Of they’re old enough to figure that out then who cares?

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      • Petter1@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        😂 if my son gets how to spoof headers, he can watch all the porn he wants

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      • ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        You seem really up in arms about this.

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      • emr@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        I think that’s up to device vendors giving parents decent controls and parents monitoring their kids devices. Which is admittedly not great, but still better than the honor system and more reasonable than submitting your license.

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  • ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    So what if it was no different than now?

    Nothing stopping adults from playing Roblox now, but we know why they are there

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  • humanspiral@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Lucky for the pedo, you never have to prove you are under 18, if that is what you tell the website.

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  • gian@lemmy.grys.it ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    I think he means that the headers come from the device making the call, not the one receing it, so a pedo should be able to change the headers of my device which is not that easy.
    Then yes, the receing end could simply ignore the header anyway, it would be way easier.

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    • slacktoid@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Yes

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  • Iheartcheese@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Don’t worry dude at least one person sees this is a joke

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