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Comment on Email provider for home server alerts

Email is my biggest frustration in self-hosting. So many services are dependent on it for reasons no one seems to be able to explain. It costs money to run it. And just the experience of email is atrocious. I don’t understand why we haven’t moved on from it. We have browser notifications, we have app notifications (both via big tech and NTFY), we have a thousand other chat platforms you can communicate through. It just boggles my mind that we haven’t moved away from this archaic technology.

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WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
you can selectively mark mails as read that don’t need attention anymore, and keep as unread those that do. how would you do that with ntfy, or messaging services? at most you can mark unread a whole topic or chatroom

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Pika@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Because it’s universal, it works, it’s multi-platform, device agnostic and it’s simple to use user side.

Nothing else available really fits that criteria.

The closest in todays age is probally discord or teams, but neither of which are decentralized. XMPP could work for it, but nobody really uses it anymore and to be honest the standard is ugly as hell to implement.

Browser Notifications are ineffective and have a high probability of failing or not being seen, they are more meant for real-time notices not historical notices not to mention locked to that browser.

App notifications would be amazing for things with apps, but not everyone wants to be forced into using their mobile device for everything, and it would again only be available from said app, which would generally be locked down to a device

Email sucks admin side, but there’s a reason its used.

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- Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  
  Because it’s universal, it works, it’s multi-platform, device agnostic and it’s simple to use user side. Nothing else available really fits that criteria.
  
  I already listed a handful of other platforms that check all those same things without being a pain in the ass to host or requiring approval from your ISP.
  
  XMPP could work for it, but nobody really uses it anymore and to be honest the standard is ugly as hell to implement.
  
  Uglier than email? Nah.
  
  it would again only be available from said app(unless you do use something like NTFY)
  
  Yes, NTFY is another example I already gave.
  
  which would generally be locked down to a device
  
  No it’s not.
  
  so if its already being stored for accounts, might as well use it for notifications
  
  It shouldn’t be used for accounts. That was my entire point. I host a dozen services and half of them no one else can use because the software mandates email verification, which I can’t use because my ISP doesn’t think I should be allowed to for some reason.
  
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merthyr1831@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I don’t have much issue with email as a technology. It does what it needs to do, and does it well. The client side software is what hasn’t budged in years - Search barely works, files and attachments are cumbersome, and spam is still rampant.

It would be much cheaper and easier if users weren’t centralised under a few big providers that prefer to bar any and all access to said users if you’re self hosting, making it almost mandatory to use a private service.

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- Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  The issue is that my ISP blocks it. And so any service that requires it is inherently broken.
  
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  - WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    they cannot block what is internal. google does not need to be aware of your internal activities anyway
    
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catloaf@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
How do you send a browser notification if the browser is closed?

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- Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  I don’t know how to answer that. That’s just how they work.
  
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IsoKiero@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

It just boggles my mind that we haven’t moved away from this archaic technology.

None of the alternatives are as standardized as plain old email. You can use whatever you like to read them, you don’t have to rely on a single company like Meta with WhatsApp for communication, it’s easy to use, pretty damn reliable and fault resistant and just ticks all the boxes you’ll ever need for a simple message delivery.

Personally I would absolutely hate if software started to offer notifications only on slack or signal or whatever. Just let me have my email and I can then read it with a browser in library, on my cellphone, on my desktop and laptop and on pretty much every other internet connected device on the planet. And if I want, I can pass that trough to teams, sms, all the messaging platforms and even straight to my printer should I need to. With other message delivery options that’s often either pretty difficult or straight up impossible.

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- Brumefey@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  
  it’s easy to use, **pretty damn reliable **
  
  Unfortunately not when you’re self hosting… Can’t rely on it when you’re supposed to receive an email (account validation, reset password email,…) which never arrives and you’re stuck clicking on « resend the email » on the website with no hope…
  
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  - IsoKiero@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I meant that the technology itself is reliable. And you can do self hosting just fine too, I’ve been doing it since 2010 or so, but running a local smarthost which sends messages via reputable SMTP provider works just fine too. Or even directly interacting with the SMTP provider from all the applications you’re running.
    
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- Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  
  You can use whatever you like to read them, you don’t have to rely on a single company like Meta with WhatsApp for communication
  
  Decentralization is not a concept that is reserved for SMTP
  
  Personally I would absolutely hate if software started to offer notifications only on slack or signal or whatever.
  
  No one suggested such a thing. I suggested several other alternatives that aren’t reliant on any particular company or service, and are easier to run and manage without requiring approval from your ISP or whatever else.
  
  With other message delivery options that’s often either pretty difficult or straight up impossible.
  
  With other options you wouldn’t need to because they already provide the features you’re looking for in those apps.
  
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  - IsoKiero@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    
    aren’t reliant on any particular company or service, and are easier to run and manage without requiring approval from your ISP
    
    What other than email provides that? Browser notifications generally don’t work on mobile. Most of the common instant messengers rely on a single instance running the thing if you’re not suggesting sending messages via IRC or XMPP (or matrix or…) which have their own problems. App notifications require that you have the thing which app is running to be available and online and they more often that not require some spesific device. Also even if you had linux desktop “app” it requires that the software is running.
    
    Also I have not met an ISP which would block sending email via gmail/amazon/protonmail/whoever. Sure, my current ISP blocks tcp/25 to the world by default, but you can request to open that too if you really want to and ports 587 and 465 are open, so you can work around that if you don’t want a smarthost for some reason.
    
    With other options you wouldn’t need to because they already provide the features you’re looking for in those apps.
    
    Which other protocol allows notifications at the same time on all the mobile devices, all the workstations and allow easy way to send the very same message to arbitary amount of recipients to all of their devices? I had email on a palm pilot device at 2001 or so, over mobile data with IRDA and you can read email even with Commodore 64 if you really want to (well, to be more spesific, use C=64 as an terminal for *nix server to access email, I think there’s no actual IMAP/POP client for it). There’s just no way for any other modern service to even try to compete with versatility with email.
    
    And then there’s the more sopisthicated approaches like pushing email trough however complex procmail/perl/python/whatever scripting you like where you can develop quite literally whatever you can imagine. Set up a old fire alarm bell, hook it up to your home automation, process incoming emails and if it’s severe enough turn the bell on. Sure, at least a some of that is possible via instant messengers too, but with email I can be pretty sure that if I write a script today for it it’ll still run quite happily for the next 10-15 years.
    
    Please do tell me which of the modern messaging alternatives offer all of that.
    
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    Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    
    What other than email provides that?
    
    Matrix? For one?
    
    Browser notifications generally don’t work on mobile.
    
    …of course they do?
    
    if you’re not suggesting sending messages via IRC or XMPP (or matrix or…) which have their own problems.
    
    Among others. Email has much bigger problems.
    
    App notifications require that you have the thing which app is running to be available and online and they more often that not require some spesific device
    
    I have no idea what any of that means…
    
    Also I have not met an ISP which would block sending email via gmail/amazon/protonmail/whoever.
    
    Which makes no difference when self-hosting…
    
    Which other protocol
    
    See above.
    
    you can read email even with Commodore 64
    
    I…don’t know what that’s supposed to mean. You want to argue that email is superior because it’s old? You can run a Mastodon server on a Commodore as well.
    
    There’s just no way for any other modern service to even try to compete with versatility with email.
    
    Yes? There are a hundred ways.
    
    Set up a old fire alarm bell, hook it up to your home automation, process incoming emails and if it’s severe enough turn the bell on.
    
    …why wouldn’t you just send the signal directly to the server?
    
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