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Comment on Ukraine isn’t invited to its own peace talks. History is full of such examples – and the results are devastating

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Kusimulkku@lemm.ee ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

Ukrainians: Fight to defend their country from Russian attack

Western countries who don’t like what Russia is doing help Ukrainians

Some silly person online: YOU’RE FIGHTING AN AMERICAN PROXY WAR

They’re just trying to defend their country.

And when they attempted peace talks before, their western handlers ordered them to keep fighting.

What’s this referring to?

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surph_ninja@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Ahh. The old hasbara strategy of pretending nothing happened before that. Nice.

europeanconservative.com/…/official-johnson-force…

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- Kusimulkku@lemm.ee ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  
  Ahh. The old hasbara strategy of pretending nothing happened before that. Nice.
  
  I don’t know what that means tbh.
  
  Link
  
  The article and the relevant section from Wikipedia both describe how the talks failed on multiple issues, with one part being the refusal of giving security guarantees.
  
  Speaking further and explaining Kyiv’s refusal to accept the proposal, Arakhamia said that it would require a constitutional change, given that Ukraine’s Constitution states its intention to become a NATO member.
  
  Additionally, he emphasized a lack of trust in the Russian position.
  
  “There is no, and there was no, trust in the Russians that they would do it. That could only be done if there were security guarantees.”
  
  Arahamiya clarified that signing such an agreement without guarantees would have left Ukraine vulnerable to a second incursion.
  
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  - surph_ninja@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    So you believe the Ukrainian officials confirming this are lying?
    
    The Wikipedia entries are maintained by western propagandists. I wouldn’t put much faith in the credibility.
    
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    Kusimulkku@lemm.ee ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    I don’t know who Ukrainian official you mean, I quoted same person as your article did (Arahamiya/Arakhamia). In those links he isn’t confirming your take that “Boris Johnson (of all people) saying “shouldn’t sign anything with them at all – and let’s just fight” was their “Western handlers ordering them to fight””.
    
    The Wikipedia article has links to the actual sources (new articles) who come back to the same things said in your linked article (from The European Conservative). It’s just that the article you linked gives a lot more weight to the Boris episode than many other sources or from what I’ve seen, Arahamiya/Arakhamia (their source) does himself.
    
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