It’s time for you to do some serious self-reflection about the inherent biases you believe about Asians.
legolas@fedit.pl 1 year ago
Apparently DeepSeek is lying, they were collecting thousands of NVIDIA chips against the US embargo and it’s not about the algorithm. That’s the story I’ve heard and honeslty it sounds legit.
Not sure if this questions has been answered: if it’s open sourced, cant we see what algorithms they used to train it? If we could then we would know the answer. I assume we cant, but if we cant, then whats so cool about it being open source on the other hand? What parts of code are valuable there besides algorithms?
ayyy@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
legolas@fedit.pl 1 year ago
WTF dude. You mentioned Asia. I love Asians. Asia is vast. There are many countries, not just China bro. I think you need to do these reflections. Im talking about very specific case of Chinese Deepseek devs potentiall lying about the chips. The assumptions and generalizations you are thinking of are crazy.
ayyy@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
And how do your feelings stand up to the fact that independent researchers find the paper to be reproducible?
legolas@fedit.pl 1 year ago
Well maybe. Apparntly some folks are already doing that but its not done yet. Let’s wait for the results. If everything is legit we should have not one but plenty of similar and better models in near future. If Chinese did this with 100 chips imagine what can be done with 100000 chips that nvidia can sell to a us company
pennomi@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The open paper they published details the algorithms and techniques used to train it, and it’s been replicated by researchers already.
legolas@fedit.pl 1 year ago
So are these techiques so novel and breaktrough? Will we now have a burst of deepseek like models everywhere? Cause that’s what absolutely should happen if the whole storey is true. I would assume there are dozens or even hundreds of companies in USA that are in a posession of similar number but surely more chips that Chinese folks claimed to trained their model on.
ArchRecord@lemm.ee 1 year ago
So are these techiques so novel and breaktrough?
The general concept, no. (it’s reinforcement learning, something that’s existed for ages)
The actual implementation, yes. (training a model to think using a separate XML section, reinforcing with the highest quality results from previous iterations using reinforcement learning that naturally pushes responses to the highest rewarded outputs) Most other companies just didn’t assume this would work as well as throwing more data at the problem.
This is actually how people believe some of OpenAI’s newest models were developed, but the difference is that OpenAI was under the impression that more data would be necessary for the improvements, and thus had to continue training the entire model with ** additional new information**, whereas DeepSeek decided to simply scrap that part altogether and go solely for reinforcement learning.
Will we now have a burst of deepseek like models everywhere?
Probably, yes. Companies and researchers are already beginning to use this same methodology. Here’s a writeup about S1, a model that performs up to 27% better than OpenAI’s best model. S1 used Supervised Fine Tuning, and did something so basic, that people hadn’t previously thought to try it: Just making the model think longer by modifying terminating XML tags.
This was released days after R1, based on R1’s initial premise, and creates better quality responses. Oh, and of course, it cost $6 to train.
So yes, I think it’s highly probable that we see a burst of new models, or at least improvements to existing ones. (Nobody has a very good reason to make a whole new model of a different name/type when they can simply improve the one they’re already using and have implemented)
Viri4thus@feddit.org 1 year ago
“China bad”
*sounds legit
Sounds legit is what one hears about FUD spread by alglophone media every time the US oligarchy is caught with their pants down.
Snowden: “US is illegally spying on everyone”
Media: Snowden is Russia spy
*Sounds legit
France: US should not unilaterally invade a country
Media: Iraq is full of WMDs
*Sounds legit
DeepSeek: Guys, distillation and body of experts is a way to save money and energy, here’s a paper on how to do same.
Media: China bad, deepseek must be cheating
*Sounds legit
maplebar@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Snowden really proved he wasn’t a Russian spy when he check notes immediately fled to Russia with troves of American secrets…
demonsword@lemmy.world 1 year ago
immediately fled to Russia with troves of American secrets
Russia wasn’t his final destiny. He was en route to somewhere else when his passport was revoked.
mspencer712@programming.dev 1 year ago
I don’t like this. Everything you’re saying is true, but this argument isn’t persuasive, it’s dehumanizing. Making people feel bad for disagreeing doesn’t convince them to stop disagreeing.
A more enlightened perspective might be “this might be true or it might not be, so I’m keeping an open mind and waiting for more evidence to arrive in the future.”
ayyy@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
We already have all the evidence. This isn’t some developing story, the paper is reproducible. What’s dehumanizing is assuming that Asians can’t make good software.
Viri4thus@feddit.org 1 year ago
Sounds legit
legolas@fedit.pl 1 year ago
Yup. Thats internet nowadays. Full of comments like this. Cant do muich about it
SadSadSatellite@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
Not the original commenter, but what theirs saying stands true. The issue of “sounds legit” is the main driving force in misinformation right now.
The only way to combat it is to truly gain the knowledge yourself. Accepting things at face value has lead to massive disagreements on objective information, and allowed anti science mindsets to flourish.
Podcasts are the medium that I give the most blame to. Just because someone has a camera and a microphone, viewers believe them to be an authority on a subject, and pairing this with the “sounds Legit” mindset has set back critical thinking skills for an entire population.
More people need to read Jurassic park.
legolas@fedit.pl 1 year ago
Its just my opnion based on few sources I saw on the web. Should I attach them as links to the comment? I guess I could. But thats extra time which Im not sure I want to spend. Imagine the discussion where both sides provide links and sources to everything they say. Would be great? I guess? But at the same time would be very diffcult on both sides and time consuming. Nobody doest that in todays internet. Nobody every did that. Not just internet acutally, both in real life and internet. Providing evidence is generally for court talk.
Deceptichum@quokk.au 1 year ago
This is your brain on Chinese/Russian propaganda.
ayyy@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Can you point out any factual inaccuracies or is it just that your wittew fee-fees got hurt?
ripcord@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Ah, cool, a new account to block.
gamer@lemm.ee 1 year ago
There’s so much misinfo spreading about this, and while I don’t blame you for buying it, I do blame you for spreading it. “It sounds legit” is not how you should decide to trust what you read. Many people think the earth is flat because the conspiracy theories sound legit to them.
DeepSeek probably did lie about a lot of things, but their results are not disputed. R1 is competitive with leading models, it’s smaller, and it’s cheaper. The good results are definitely not from “sheer chip volume and energy used”, and American AI companies could have saved a lot of money if they had used those same techniques.