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Comment on [Episode] The Exiled Heavy Knight Knows How to Game the System • Tsuihou Sareta Tensei Juukishi wa Game Chishiki de Musou Suru - Episode 10 discussion

BillyClark@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

I dislike the trope where the hero goes into the guild and everybody learns too much about them because their conversation with the receptionist is overheard by everybody.

Like, everybody had to hear that they earned 10,000,000 gold just from the bounty and that they didn’t think it was that much?

I get it that probably the bounty was public knowledge, and probably everybody would learn through gossip that Elymas’s team defeated the dungeon, and that this is just an easy way to add drama, but I don’t think story writing is supposed to be just easy and cliches. Good fantasy story writing is predicated on a believable world that’s been lovingly and carefully crafted, but the guild here is just so hard to believe even in the context of that world.

And speaking of easy and cliched writing, Malice is suddenly obsessed with Elymas? That makes zero sense to me, at least only watching the anime. If she was really that obsessed, why wouldn’t she have killed him rather than letting him leave home at the very beginning of the anime? The moment she let him go, he’s much harder to kill because, for example, first she has to find him.

Good story writing gives the viewer or reader reasons why something might happen. It’s not enough for the first episode to say that Malice is crazy and hates Elymas. That’s different from being obsessed with him after she’s already taken everything from him and exiled him. The viewer or reader needs to understand characters well enough to understand their actions. The fact that she already let him go needs to be explained.

But again, this episode had a part that I really enjoyed, which was the negotiation with the shop owner. And just to compare it to those other two parts, it feels like a consistent and realistic part of the world, and you have gotten a great glimpse of how all of the characters involved would act. It was just fun and lovely. Whoever wrote that scene has the ability to write really well. I don’t understand how there is such a huge difference in quality, scene to scene.

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headward_scissorfeet@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

And speaking of easy and cliched writing, Malice is suddenly obsessed with Elymas? That makes zero sense to me, at least only watching the anime. If she was really that obsessed, why wouldn’t she have killed him rather than letting him leave home at the very beginning of the anime?

My hypothesis is that Malice was not in a position to just kill Elm when he was exiled, but his feats as an adventurer could undermine her claim to the position of heir to the head of their House. Her killing of the prisoner highlights two things in particular: she is efficiently power leveling up in a rather game player like way and the other is how ruthlessly she is pursuing her goal of staking her claim.

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- Unboxious@ani.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Weird that she had an audience for that.
  
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  - headward_scissorfeet@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    I chalk it up to narrative convenience. It could have been told as a flashback in a future episode or left out entirely, but I think it serves the purpose of world building and character development even if it’s not exactly subtle about either.
    
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    Unboxious@ani.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    It works because she’s a freak, I guess. I’m just imagining the letters she presumably sent out. “Yo, murdering some peasants tomorrow evening! Anyone want to get dressed up and watch?”
    
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Mercuri@ani.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

I dislike the trope where the hero goes into the guild and everybody learns too much about them because their conversation with the receptionist is overheard by everybody.

I always see that as shorthand for the rumor mill. Sure, it would be more realistic if people gradually put the pieces together:

“Hey, that Level 50 dungeon bounty isn’t available anymore…”

“Wait, those two just got promoted to D-rank…”

“Hold on, they just sold a MASSIVE crystal…”

But actually showing everyone independently connecting those dots would slow the story to a crawl, so I don’t mind the shortcut.

Also, from the end of the last episode, Ruche is already seeing stars when Elymas casually tells her they made 60 million from the dungeon. So when she later hears “10 million,” her reaction is basically: “Oh. Just a little more, I guess? Big numbers go brrrr.”

And speaking of easy and cliched writing, Malice is suddenly obsessed with Elymas?

Yeah, I agree that the anime really drops the ball here. Even the manga doesn’t handle it particularly well, but the anime gives you such a tiny glimpse of Malice’s motivations that she mostly just comes across as completely insane for no reason.

Then again, the head of the family disowning his own son and immediately taking Malice in practically on the spot at the class ceremony wasn’t exactly a decision overflowing with logic to begin with.

My understanding is that Malice came from a branch family and became obsessed with Elymas because he represented everything she wanted to be. Then, even after he gets disowned, she hears that he’s making a name for himself as an adventurer and suddenly develops this overwhelming need to prove she’s better than him… for reasons.

Honestly, it feels a little like the author went: “Okay, he’s been disowned, but now he’s just a newbie adventurer. We need some kind of ongoing consequence for the banishment… How about a weird obsessive rivalry? Yes, perfect!”

But again, this episode had a part that I really enjoyed, which was the negotiation with the shop owner.

Yes! I loved that scene. It really feels like the point where Ruche starts becoming her own character instead of just reacting to whatever Elymas does.

And it’s even better because all three characters actually behave like reasonable people. You don’t have Malice being malicious simply because the author apparently looked at her name and went, “Well, I guess I have to commit to the bit.” And you don’t have Ruche’s old party being absurdly oblivious about basic things like drop rates just so they have an excuse to treat her like garbage.

Everyone has understandable motivations, everyone negotiates, and Ruche gets to demonstrate that she’s learning and growing.

And that’s what makes this series so weird to me. It genuinely has moments where I’m like: “Wow, that’s actually really good writing.”

Immediately followed by: “…What the actual fuck is going on?”

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- BillyClark@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  
  But actually showing everyone independently connecting those dots would slow the story to a crawl, so I don’t mind the shortcut.
  
  One alternative that doesn’t slow things down much is they’re taken into a private meeting room and the whole conversation happens in private. Then, when they’re coming out of the room, the entire guild quiets down, and are looking at them with greedy eyes, and maybe the MCs project and think to themselves, “They know we made a lot of money.”
  
  Or, they leave the guild after the private meeting, and when they’re in the restaurant afterwards, that asshole adventurer comes up to them and makes an ass of himself in an even worse place, and tells them that everybody in the guild knows they defeated the dungeon and made a lot of money.
  
  Anyways, I’m not really a writer. It’s a lot easier to throw out ideas than it is to write the scenes using the ideas. Like you said, I also can’t really blame the anime for doing it the way they did. I just personally don’t like the trope. I don’t think I’m precisely their target audience.
  
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