Dave Grossman is full of shit. This is independent to the potential trauma from killing people (there’s a wide range of reactions to that experience). Dave Grossman is full of shit.
Comment on Sympathy for their PTSD
sOlitude24k@lemmy.myserv.one 3 weeks ago
Posted this in another thread, gonna post it here, too.
“Looking another human being in the eye, making an independent decision to kill him, and watching as he dies due to your action combine to form one of the most basic, important, primal, and potentially traumatic occurrences of war.”
It’s an unpopular take, but I recommend everyone read the book “On Killing” by Dave Grossman. It’s obvious that what Israel is doing is very much a genocide, but I stand firm in my opinion that their boots-on-the-ground infantryman are also victims of the Israeli political machine.
Liz@midwest.social 3 weeks ago
EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com 3 weeks ago
Grossman
What a fitting name. Because he is quite gross
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I stand firm in my opinion that their boots-on-the-ground infantryman are also victims
Settlers enlisted in an occupying force that seeks to claim more territory over the bodies of the native occupants are not victims.
Liz@midwest.social 3 weeks ago
They have mandatory service, though I’m sure very few people serving their mandatory term are a part of the invading force.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Israeli conscription is becoming as fierce and draconian as Russian conscription. A big reason why the Israeli economy is tanking stems from the mass mobilization of working age adults to do war crimes.
uis@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
but I stand firm in my opinion that their boots-on-the-ground infantryman are also victims of the Israeli political machine.
Caramel Marks, I mean Karl Marx, would probably agree with you.
Zacryon@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
Humans are not made to kill other humans. And those who fight the wars of the mighty, are those who are among the ones who suffer the most.
War is really stupid. And it’s astonishing how we continue to be such a stupid species. Given how far we’ve come, one would think that we’ve finally realized how much humanity could achieve if we were working together instead of killing each other.
By the way:
It’s obvious that what Israel is doing is very much a genocide
The international court of justice has not ruled on this yet, but continues to observe and investigate whether such genocide allegations could apply.
However, I am not a fan of anyone who practises or participates in wars and so easily tolerates the deaths of innocents.
abracaDavid@lemmy.today 3 weeks ago
Lmao are you really trying to act like it’s not a genocide because some bureaucratic board has been bullied into being quiet about it?
Zacryon@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
because some bureaucratic board has been bullied into being quiet about it
That’s a bold thing to claim.
They are not quiet about this.
And yes, until there is sufficient proof for the genocide allegations and/or the ICJ rules it as such, I can’t confidently say for myself that it’s genocide.
There is a tremendous amount of work invested in this case by people much more qualified than you or me.
Still, from my side is in no way a justification for the cruel deaths of so many innocents. Civilian casualties are in no way tolerable for me.
zbyte64@awful.systems 3 weeks ago
There’s literally video of a child getting cut down, then when help comes for the child they blow them up with a bomb. That’s some psychopath shit.
Zacryon@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
That’s indeed unbelievably cruel.
This does not constitute a genocide though.
zbyte64@awful.systems 3 weeks ago
It does if there is a pattern of killing children and those who respond to medical emergencies. We all know they target the ambulances. Seems there’s a terrorist behind every kid, uninhabited graveyard, and hospital. History will not be kind.
masquenox@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
The international court of justice
We don’t need a pack of overpaid bureucrats with fancy titles to tell us whether a genocide is occuring or not. It’s a fucking genocide. Plain and simple.
WoodScientist@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Sure, but couldn’t the same be said for many of the literal guards at Auschwitz? A lot of those people were just kids who were drafted and were simply following orders.
Jtotheb@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
The Nuremberg Trials are a great example of how you don’t hang if you provide enough value to the military-industrial complex, and a terrible example of full stop no excuses. Seems ill suited to be a foundation for a moral philosophy.
sOlitude24k@lemmy.myserv.one 3 weeks ago
It absolutely could, and should. I’m not saying that the crimes should be forgiven, but it is not a purely black and white area. It is very grey. To ignore the fact that they were ordinary people in extraordinary circumstances, just because it’s uncomfortable to think about, would be a disservice towards efforts to prevent things like this in the future. People are complex.
4lan@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
They have a choice. They could either kill innocent people or sit in a jail cell. Picking the first one makes you a sociopath.
I guarantee he would face a lot less trauma in jail, especially since he is a trained soldier.
Stop making excuses, “complexity” doesn’t justify genocide.
sOlitude24k@lemmy.myserv.one 3 weeks ago
It’s not a justification for genocide, it’s a call for empathy. Give what I wrote another read with that in mind.
As for your questions… I think our soldiers are victims. I was there, so I think I’ve got at least a somewhat informed perspective on things. It’s not something you can prepare for. In my experience, forgiveness and understanding come with time, but it will never be the majority.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
glances at the state of Israeli prisons, complete with guards who have the designated job of raping prisoners
Maybe not a lot less.
freddydunningkruger@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
And if the glass house you call your home exists in the united states, then your taxes financed filling the soldiers heads with the propaganda, financed sending them out on the field, made sure they had rations and ammo, and paid to put their finger on that trigger. What’s your culpability, compadre? You know when you point your finger at someone, you’ve got three more aimed straight at yourself, right?