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Comment on Lemmy's gaining popularity, so I thought new people should see this.

JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

When I say right, I am using the typical definition, supportive of Capitalism. Social Democrats, Liberals, American Libertarians, fascists, and all their myriad forms.

For two of the words this is not a typical definition. Social democrats do not code as “right” anywhere in the world. And liberals are only “right” when viewed through a partisan US-progressive lens, or else perhaps in southern Europe (where the word is mostly an economic term). Elsewhere they would be closer to left or center. This whole discussion illustrates the limited usefulness of the left-right axis at describing ideas.

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poVoq@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

Social democrats do not code as “right” anywhere in the world.

Except in Portugal, where the conservative party calls themselves Social Democrats.

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- JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  True but that is a proper name, not the generic definition. Russia’s Liberal Democrats are ultranationalists.
  
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Cowbee@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

Social democrats do not code as “right” anywhere in the world.

Are you trying to say that wherever Social Democrats are found, they are the most left available? That may track, but again, Social Democrats want to “harness Capitalism,” it isn’t pro-Socialism nor anti-Capitalism, hence my categorization.

And liberals are only “right” when viewed through a partisan US-progressive lens, or else perhaps in southern Europe (where the word is mostly an economic term)

Liberalism is the ideological framework for Capitalism, this is, again, supportive of Capitalism and against Socialism.

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- JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  This is a bit reductive. I accept that liberalism and capitalism are closely intertwined in the historical reading. But the fact is that capitalism won the economic battle, for better and (I agree) for worse. Attempts to replace it completely, in an interconnected world, invariably end in disaster or (China) in a reversion to capitalism. Just look at the list of them. To me this whole question feels like a disconnected high-school philosophy debate.
  
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  - Cowbee@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I don’t think this is a good place to have this convo, but I firmly disagree with what you’ve said here. I understand if you don’t want to, but if you want to discuss this further you can shoot me a DM.
    
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    JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Seriously? I’m not trying to convince you, I’m trying to convince the people reading us. That’s the way a forum debate works! But I admire your earnestness.
    
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