Submitted ⁨⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨snarfed.org@fed.brid.gy⁩ to ⁨activitypubblueskybridge@venera.social⁩

Fediverse! I’ve been building a bridge to Bluesky, and they’re turning on federation soon, which means my bridge will be available soon too. You’ll be able to follow people on Bluesky from here in the fediverse, and vice versa.

Bluesky is a broad network with lots of worthwhile people and conversations! I hope you’ll give it a chance. Only fully public content is bridged, not followers-only or otherwise private posts or profiles. Still, if you want to opt out, I understand. Feel free to DM me at @snarfed@indieweb.social (different account than this one), email me, file a GitHub issue, or put #nobridge in your profile bio.

A number of us have thought about this for a while now, we’re committed to making it work well for everyone, and we’re very open to feedback. Thanks for listening. Feel free to share broadly.

cc @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews

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qqmrichter@mastodon.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@snarfed.org@snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
> … we're very open to feedback.
Here's your feedback you fuckwit: get fucked.
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- anders@mastodon.cyborch.com ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  @qqmrichter @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews you have to appreciate someone so openly breaking their instance rules about proper conduct.
  It makes it easier to report and block them.
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- tdfischer@towns.gay ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  @qqmrichter @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews I did not consent to your dumb post getting federated to my good server, shut the fuck up
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  - shiri@foggyminds.com ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    @tdfischer @qqmrichter ... you did consent though?
    If you didn't consent you'd have set up your server as a whitelist instance...
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grrrr_shark@supervolcano.angryshark.eu ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
Wow. This is just such an epically bad call. I can't imagine reading the room this badly.
ANY privacy advocate you talk to - and I really suggest you talk to a few - will give you the burning side-eye for thinking you have the right to force folks to opt out.
And you should definitely look into the fact that you may be violating the GDPR. Someone else certainly will.
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- shiri@foggyminds.com ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  @grrrr_shark @snarfed.org it neither violates the GDPR (and if you think it does you either woefully misunderstand what a bridge is or what the GDPR covers), and as a privacy advocate... any privacy advocate that actually cares about their privacy rather than the vague concept of privacy would shrug at this.
  You posted publicly and it's visible on another instance... that's all that's happening here.
  I've noticed others below seem to think this is something like a web scraper or that it will do something invasive? A bridge just translates between protocols, once this is up it just means that bluesky users and activitypub users would be able to talk to eachother through this instance with it translating requests between the two (ie. user1@bluesky wants to follow user2@mastodon, they'd follow something like user2.mastodon@brid.gy; user2 will get a follow request from something like user1.bluesky@brid.gy; if they accept then they'll be sharing their posts between eachother)
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donray@mastodon.online ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@fedidevs @activitypubblueskybridge @fediversenews @snarfed.org
This is bad news. Don’t do it. You seem to have decided that everyone should be subjected to your brilliant idea.
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- shiri@foggyminds.com ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  @donray @snarfed.org yet you decided the same for us with this comment?
  If you take issue with how your public federated post is federated... then you should join a whitelist instance.
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sarae@ecoevo.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@snarfed.org you should not be setting this up as opt-out
I didn't consent to be part of your experiment, and if I wanted an account on some other network I'd have one
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- jeremiah@tldr.nettime.org ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  @sarae @snarfed.org co-signed.
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  - shiri@foggyminds.com ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    @jeremiah @snarfed.org @sarae The entire fediverse is opt-out structure by default.
    If you want opt-in I recommend moving to or setting up a whitelist instance (an instance configured to only federate with instances added to the whitelist, meaning all instances are opt-in by your admin).
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KinkyKobolds@meow.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews This should be opt-in, not opt-out. BlueSky doesn't use ActivityPub and, therefore, the tools users have to protect themselves on Mastodon are incompatible with your bridge.
I'll be talking with the other moderators and admins of furry-focused servers to inform them of this new risk to marginalized users and I'm confident they'll be taking appropriate actions to keep our communities safe.
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- shiri@foggyminds.com ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  @KinkyKobolds @snarfed.org The entire fediverse is opt-out structure by default.
  If you want opt-in I recommend moving to or setting up a whitelist instance (an instance configured to only federate with instances added to the whitelist, meaning all instances are opt-in by your admin).
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  - KinkyKobolds@meow.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    @shiri I know that public posting means it's readable to anyone on the Internet who finds it. But as long as it's on Mastodon, I still have controls to edit and remove things as necessary. My account being mirrored to another service without my consent removes the ability to control my content.
    And besides, the right to reproduce a work belongs to a copyright holder. All it takes is one person who can afford to lawyer up and this becomes a prohibitively expensive lesson in copyright law.
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shanie@mastodon.tails.ch ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews A lot of people are upset about this but ya'll know, straight up, if your feed is live & people not auth'd can read your server feed you *don't have privacy*. Mastodon and the fediverse in general never said anything about expectations of privacy.
Snarfed here could have been a bad actor and never told you anything and as far as I know it's in the clear.
If you don't like it, block the bridge and move on.
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- tauon@possum.city ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  @shanie@tails.ch @snarfed.org@fed.brid.gy @activitypubblueskybridge@venera.social @fedidevs@venera.social @fediversenews@venera.social "it's possible to do bad thing, so there's nothing wrong with bad thing actually"
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  - shanie@mastodon.tails.ch ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    @tauon @fediversenews @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @snarfed.org How to take a point and not at all understand what it means for $500, Alex.
    It’s possible to do bad thing, so take control of your server and prevent it in an active way.
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- chris@mstdn.strafpla.net ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  @shanie @snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews “They could have been a bad actor and you would never know” does not seem to be a good point to make to convince people of bridging.
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  - shanie@mastodon.tails.ch ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    @chris @snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews Lucky for you they gave admins an option of what you want done. Good actor.
    A bad actor, for example, is likely already gathering your servers data and training it on a LLM as you have no power over THEIR server; you have *volunteered that data by federating*. Your ToS means nothing. Oops.
    Someone truly worried about privacy would not be federating at all.
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shlee@aus.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
Attachment: mediacdn.aus.social ↗
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- maegul@hachyderm.io ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  @shlee @snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
  eh ... as with Threads + fedipact, there's likely a spectrum where the louder voices can mask the "middle of the road" voices, for better or worse. Anti-Bridge-Pact?
  What exactly is the difference between this and a new instance? I'm genuinely unclear?
  Like, do kbin instances respect search indexing preferences? What about other commercial instances like moth?
  Is it the relative size of bksy?
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  - jbwharris@mstdn.ca ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    @maegul @shlee @snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews Agreed. I just want to actually interact with people I actually know on other platforms from the comfort of Mastodon. I miss people I actually know in real life.
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johentsch@hostux.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@snarfed.org
Please be respectful and make it opt-in instead of opt-out.
@activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
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- shiri@foggyminds.com ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  @johentsch @snarfed.org If you take issue with your post being federated then you really should note that you've opted in already by posting publicly and on a non-whitelist server.
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  - johentsch@hostux.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    @shiri
    OK it's good that you're going around explaining to people what a bridge is but I don't see a lot effort on your side to understand the deeper implications that people associate with bsky, the ones that sets it apart from "worse bridges". As a privacy advocate you must have come across people who take issue with their friends storing photos of them on gPhotos? That's the spirit. Yes, a bridge translates: we eschew what follows after.
    @snarfed.org
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notthatdelta@mstdn.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
Such a service should be opt-in only, for the handful of folks who DO want their content used to generate traffic for Bluesky.
As I'm not one of those people, I am notifying you that I am opting out. It'd be nice if that request was honored, but realistically I know it won't be.
So fuck you.
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BlackAzizAnansi@mas.to ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews Please make this opt-in.
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seachanger@alaskan.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@snarfed.org build bridges not walls is great! being able to add #nobridge to individual profiles seems like a reasonable way for folks to opt out. Thanks for all your work!
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alexjs@fosstodon.org ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge
Making this on an opt-out basis was a horrible, horrible decision. Please opt me out, and never, ever, include me in any future bridges.
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smeg@assortedflotsam.com ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@snarfed.org thanks for the heads-up! Blocked the domain on the server level. Centralized corporate social media always goes to shit, so it's nice to block it out from day 1.
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dsalo@digipres.club ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@snarfed.org Congratulations! You convinced me to block your entire domain!
Well done, you exploitative git.
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- coastgnu@norden.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  @dsalo
  +1
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  - shiri@foggyminds.com ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    @coastgnu @dsalo congratulations... y'all chose opt out exactly as offered?
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voltagex@aus.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews this should be opt in, not opt out
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LorrieW@mstdn.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
I want to OPT OUT please.
#NoBridge for me.
This should have been an OPT-IN only
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Arataka@aincrad.lol ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@snarfed.org@fed.brid.gy @snarfed@indieweb.social @activitypubblueskybridge@venera.social @fedidevs@venera.social @fediversenews@venera.social Cool! Looks interesting, sucks you are getting some piss poor negative feedback but the Fediverse does like to hurt itself pretty bad with stuff like this. I hope everything goes smoothly. Don't take the fedi mob seriously.
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hazelnot@sunbeam.city ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews I hope your creepy non-consensual fucking project gets defederated from every instance and your shitty fucking bridge becomes completely fucking useless
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- petrescatraian@libranet.de ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  @hazelnot I don't get why people get angry over a freakin' bridge, yet they have no issue with the existence of projects like #BirdsiteLIVE. This is just so entitled. If you don't want to have your content available live on every place, just post it with a different privacy option smh
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  - hazelnot@sunbeam.city ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    @petrescatraian techbros understand consent challenge (impossible)
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- shiri@foggyminds.com ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  @hazelnot @snarfed.org reporting you to your server admins for violating rule 7 on your server...
  Bridges are a dime a dozen (literally there are so many out there already and this is open source so good luck de-federating them all without just joining a whitelist server), the fediverse doesn't work the way you think it does, bridges probably don't work the way you think they do, and dogpiling on someone for sharing their project for feedback, especially for offering a polite feature to exclude yourself from the bridge which no other bridge I've seen offers just makes it clear you're an asshole.
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  - VamptVo@mastodon.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    @shiri This is increasingly how I'm inclined to treat these crybullies. Ryan's doing really important work to move the Fediverse forward and these are people who just get off on abusing strangers online. They'll never be satisfied.
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baralheia@dragonchat.org ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews I am excited for this, thank you for the time and effort you're putting into building this ActivityPub <> ATproto bridge, especially the two-way communication support! I have had very poor experiences with BlueSky myself, but I have multiple friends that prefer it and just aren't interested in Fedi. It will be amazing to be able to rebuild that part of my social circle and keep tabs with them, while still being able to utilize the filtering and timeline curation tools that only Mastodon provides right now.
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- baralheia@dragonchat.org ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  @snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews Here's a thought... While it's not a concern for me, I'm seeing a lot of worry from others about opt-in consent for this bridge. Could you consider (either by option or by default) having the bridge send newly-followed users a message through their service saying, basically, "this is an automatic message from Bridgy Fed. <User> wants to follow you from <service> via this bridge. Do you want to allow this?" and offer always, yes, no, and full opt-out options in response. The user who initiated the follow request wouldn't see anything until the newly-followed user responded, and no response would equal a "no" answer. Could something like that be doable?
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  - shiri@foggyminds.com ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    @baralheia @snarfed.org that's pretty much already native with how a bridge works.
    When a Bluesky user goes to follow you, you'll get a follow request from that user:instance@bridge (or similiar format username).
    A lot of the confusion and freak out comes from people (a) not knowing how bridges work and (b) taking vague offense because they don't like Bluesky and think that the whole fediverse should conform to their personal standards
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- noxypaws@packmates.org ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  @baralheia @snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews Don't encourage this opt-out bullshit.
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  - baralheia@dragonchat.org ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    @noxypaws @snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews The Fediverse is already made up of literally dozens of various services that all speak the same protocol - Mastodon, Firefish, Pixelfed, Pleroma, Frendica, among many others - and users on one service can freely interact with users on another service. Personally I don't see this bridge as being anything different, really. I have essentially zero issue with a public post of mine being visible to any and all - that's the whole point of a public post on the open web, imo. As long as they hold true to their word that non-public posts won't be viewable via the bridge, I have no issues with it.
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unlofl@mstdn.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews "Moderate people, not code"
You do not have the resources to moderate everything that will flow over this bridge, so you shouldn't do it. Your project will force this work on other instance mods.
Opt-out is unethical because people aren't aware they're being opted-in, but also because it makes this bigger and dumps more work on other instances.
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- unlofl@mstdn.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  @snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews honestly, we probably need another project like #fedipact to track things like this. I don't want to keep an eye out for every scraper/indexer/bridge project, I just want to pick an instance where my admins defed and opt everyone out. As a bonus, this would place pressure on projects to be opt-in only, so they don't get blocked on sight by whole communities.
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  - shiri@foggyminds.com ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    @unlofl @snarfed.org That's literally a whitelist server, you join a server that only federates with pre-approved servers.
    That's the only functional way if you want to pro-actively avoid being accessible from all bridges. Though to be honest you can also just pay attention to the usernames of whomever follows you to see if it's a bridge account, not like it's hard to spot randomuser:bluesky@instance
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FinchHaven@sfba.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@snarfed.org
Opt-in only, or I #DomainBlock
What is that again?
bsky.brid.gy?
So noted...
I want *nothing* to do with #Bluesky
#NoBridge has been added to my profile
cc @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews@venera.social
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- shiri@foggyminds.com ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  @FinchHaven @snarfed.org ... "opt-in or I opt-out"?
  How's that a threat? It's literally how these things work...
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VamptVo@mastodon.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@snarfed.org Just want to say thank you for all your work on this! I'm on BlueSky as well but not comfortable with their VC backing. It's going to be nice to be able to interact with folks on there from my Mastodon account!
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punkscience_ns@me.dm ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews Glad to hear it! I would prefer to have a single account that gives me access to the wider Fediverse than have to have multiple identities across multiple networks. Thanks for your work! How do we use it?
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joshix@fosspri.de ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@snarfed.org honestly fuck you. Do you really expect everybody to have enough space in their bios to opt-out of your fucking bs? How many opt-out bs am I supposed to put there?
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blake@infosec.town ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@snarfed.org@snarfed.org @snarfed @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews I'm a big fan of bridges and this is the big one I've been eagerly waiting for. I'll probably add it to my wizard soon after it's available. Once the moderation issues get sorted out, I firmly believe that in the end, this will be a net positive for both networks, since Bluesky users will be able to follow and engage with the vibrant and growing communities and services here, and we'll be able to follow and engage with shitposters from Bluesky.

The moderation issues should be sorted out promptly, and I'm a little disappointed that you're going to open it up with little consideration about mod tooling, especially considering the lists and lists of known problematic users on Bluesky, from mere crypto-shills and scammers to bigots, transphobes, racists, fascists, and genocide supporters. I don't have any way to find or use Bluesky's mod lists from here so there needs to be some other way.

Plus, I'm sure Bluesky users want a way to mass-mute and mass-block bridged users, maybe even from particular instances, especially considering our ongoing tone police and reply guy problems, which have driven numerous people from here to there. I feel like this part is imminently solvable with automatically-populated moderation list(s), though.
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- SuperMoosie@mastodon.au ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  @blake
  Where have we signed up for the bluesky TOS?
  What gives this guy the right to copy our content we make for the fediverse available on a commercial network?
  No one has consented for this.
  Bridges need to be opt in.
  @fediversenews @fedidevs @activitypubblueskybridge @snarfed.org @snarfed
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  - shiri@foggyminds.com ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    @SuperMoosie @snarfed.org @snarfed @blake to be clear, where have you signed up for my server's TOS? And I don't mean that just to be silly, it's very explicitly how the legal take works here.
    You can not apply your TOS to outside users and they can't apply their TOS to you. If you take issue with it you can block the instance.
    And as far as "Bridges should be opt in" that ship passed decades ago, bridges aren't remotely new, this is just probably the first you've noticed.
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Cyrus@zirk.us ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@snarfed.org @gogobonobo You need to make this opt IN not opt OUT. It absolutely fucking sucks that you want to force the majority of decentralized posts here into content for Jack fucking Dorsey.
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- shiri@foggyminds.com ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  @Cyrus @gogobonobo @snarfed.org I get the feeling you think a bridge is a scraper...
  Bluesky is about to start federating just under it's own protocol (their equivalent of ActivityPub which others will be able to host servers on the same as we can host servers on AP). A bridge translates between two protocols. Your content isn't getting scraped and uploaded to Bluesky.
  A bridge just means that Bluesky users will show up to us like new users on this bridge. user1@bluesky will turn into something like user1.bluesky@brid.gy.
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CStamp@mastodon.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews Does this allow 2-way interaction or is it still read-only?
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- blake@infosec.town ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  @CStamp @snarfed@mastodon.social @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews This will allow two way interaction.
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steelex2@social.tchncs.de ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews no good idea. It is not ok to demand an active optout via #nobridge from everyone. I dont care for bluesky, i care for my privacy! @ErikUden
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- DavidBHimself@firefish.city ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  @steelex2@social.tchncs.de @snarfed@social.tchncs.de @activitypubblueskybridge@venera.social @fedidevs@venera.social @fediversenews@venera.social @ErikUden@mastodon.de I don't know you, we're not connected in any way I know, and yet, I can see your post, and your profile and more.
  How is that for your privacy?
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- snscaimito@techhub.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  @steelex2 @snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews @ErikUden I guess you want to use privacy settings on your posts then. This is all public by default here
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Crazypedia@pagan.plus ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Pagan Plus will be blocking the blue sky bridge for automaticly opting unaware users into sharing and introducing the fediverse to bluesky's moderation problems.
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- Crazypedia@pagan.plus ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  After reviewing the domain operated by the bridge creator, I have silanced the domain to discourage interaction with data scrapers
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rolle@mementomori.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@snarfed.org Can’t wait Bluesky to federate and try this out!
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- jakob@soc.schuerz.at ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  @rolle @snarfed.org
  Use Friendica... and you can do it now!
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