Protesters denounce blockage of EU legislation defining rape as sex without consent

Comments

• BrikoX@lemmy.zip ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  It’s wild that some countries doesn’t consider it rape unless violence is used. Fuck up world.

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  • 5ibelius9insterberg@feddit.de ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Hot take: Rape is violence, no matter what.

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    • themeatbridge@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I understand what you’re trying to say, but the counter argument is that rape could occur through coercion or deception.

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    • ricecake@sh.itjust.works ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      There’s the violence of “a wrong committed against a person’s body”, and there’s violence in the sense of “a direct application of physical force”.
      I think everyone here is in agreement that the second sense should not be considered a prerequisite for the first.

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    • magnetosphere@kbin.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Yeah. That’s the only attitude that makes the French legal definition of rape tolerable.

      France, for instance, considers that rape can be considered to have occurred when “an act of sexual penetration or an oral-genital act is committed on a person, with violence, coercion, threat or surprise.”

      Far from ideal, but it leaves enough room for interpretation that a decent judge can work with it. Unfortunately, that same leeway can also allow a shitty judge to let scumbags off easy.

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    • AnonTwo@kbin.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I think the problem is this is "legally defining"

      So a hot take just wouldn't hold up in court.

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  • azertyfun@sh.itjust.works ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I can’t be fucked to find the original analysis I read on this, but IIRC France objects because they are already party to the Istanbul Convention which apparently defines things in a way that, they argue, not only is redundant but is more specific and therefore holds more legal weight.

    I’m no jurist, but I think there’s more nuance to this subject than sensationalist headlines imply.

    France, for instance, considers that rape can be considered to have occurred when “an act of sexual penetration or an oral-genital act is committed on a person, with violence, coercion, threat or surprise.”

    So, what kind of non-consensual sex act couldn’t be argued to be rape under this definition? “violence, coercion, threat, or surprise” seems to cover all bases I can (perhaps naively) think of.

    At least I don’t think we should so easily dismiss concerns that a competing definition might weaken the word of the law, as well intentioned as it may be.

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    • BrikoX@lemmy.zip ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      So because France considers their definition to be the same or better, they block it from becoming the definition for the whole bloc where other countries have looser definitions. Make no sense and makes them the bad guy here holding off the progress.

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    • Socsa@sh.itjust.works ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      This is just France being France. They are the obstinate teenager of the EU. It doesn’t need any logic, they just need to be both correct and different.

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  • charliespider@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Right… Like: “it’s not a bank robbery if you don’t use a gun!”

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    • TWeaK@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Robbery does require violence though.

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• Socsa@sh.itjust.works ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  How the fuck else do you define rape?

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• Compactor9679@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Lol You need a letter now signed and everything? Lol Men should just leave this places what a BS

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