Comment on US grid adds batteries at 10x the rate of natural gas in first half of 2024

• sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  No, the point is to put less greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. Natural gas is way cleaner than coal, and it’s quite a bit cheaper (from what I can tell) vs battery storage. Everything has a cost tradeoff, and the cost tradeoff for natural gas is very attractive right now. Maybe we’ll develop some really inexpensive energy storage (sodium batteries look promising), but regardless of what we come up with, there will be a transition period where we roll it out, and natural gas is a fantastic alternative until that’s done because supply lines are already in place.

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  • skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    gas turbines are also fantastically versatile. any petroleum fraction lighter than grease, ethanol, biogas, syngas, hydrogen, ammonia, really anything that burns and can get through nozzle can be used as a fuel. if you have a carbon-neutral source of liquid fuel that can be stored, you have carbon neutral peaker plant

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    • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Which is why hydrogen is so interesting to me, especially solar-generated hydrogen. It’s a pain to store, but if it’s used relatively quickly, the losses should be small enough to make it worthwhile. AFAIK, most hydrogen generation is powered by fossil fuels, but there is a path for shifting to renewable generation. I’m a big fan of warehouses generating their own hydrogen and supplementing it with grid-powered hydrogen generation because there’s a path toward full renewable hydrogen.

      I don’t know how hard it is to transition a natural gas plant to a hydrogen plant (or other fuel source), but I do think any step that reduces our emissions is a step we ought to seriously consider taking. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of better.

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      • skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        easy high power generation from hydrogen would be in gas turbines, but this will have horrendous roundtrip efficiency. which is why it’d be better to soak up peak power in hydrogen and use it for non-power uses, like ammonia and then fertilizers, or direct reduced iron, or various hydrogenations in fine chemicals segment. these things take a solid chunk of energy to make. it’s net positive because it replaces gas en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_reforming while storing hydrogen is pain it’s easier than electricity, and some intermediate can be stored too if hydrogen consumption can be surged

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      • partial_accumen@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Which is why hydrogen is so interesting to me, especially solar-generated hydrogen. It’s a pain to store, but if it’s used relatively quickly, the losses should be small enough to make it worthwhile.

        The pain with hydrogen storage isn’t just leakage (which is a huge problem because of how small the molecule is), but energy density. Gaseous hydrogen needs either extremely large containers or really extreme pressures (meaning thick, heavy, expensive) and even then its not very much energy storage. To get even higher density requires liquification, which means which is only reached at −253°C (−423°F), and that also requires large expensive machinery and energy to run it.

        Unless you’re changing hydrogen into something else (like ammonia), hydrogen isn’t a great solution for energy storage or transportation.

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