Comment on US grid adds batteries at 10x the rate of natural gas in first half of 2024

• SeaJ@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I enjoy that you are making a strawman. Nobody ever said batteries have no negatives. You asked how they were leaner than natural gas. I answered. Sorry that the answer hurt your feelings.

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  • Arkouda@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    How exactly is the production of batteries cleaner and cheaper than the production of natural gas?

    On to your bullshit “answer”:

    Mostly because natural gas is a one and done thing when it is used.

    Has nothing to do with the production.

    Batteries can be recycled.

    Nothing to do with base production, again.

    Production of natural gas is largely done through racking which destroys the groundwater. While batteries often require mining

    Finally! Production!

    Oh no… So apparently mining doesn’t impact ground water in anyway? What about nearby rivers? Lakes?

    (excluding mechanical ones), they often can be broken down and reused in new batteries.

    You already said batteries can be recycled. No shit Shirlocke, doesn’t make the mines have less impact.

    And of course there is the greenhouse gas emissions from methane that are horrible.

    What about all of the GHG to open and maintain a Lithium mine? Transport of raw Lithium to production lines? The refining of Lithium for use in batteries?

    Etc. Etc.

    Methane is extremely leaky. Methane usage emits about as much greenhouse gas emissions as coal does.

    Yup, that is true. Doesn’t mean that batteries are a “green” alternative when they do just as much damage and use a resource that is far more finite.

    I enjoy that you are making a strawman. Nobody ever said batteries have no negatives. You asked how they were leaner than natural gas. I answered. Sorry that the answer hurt your feelings.

    I do love how people like you always default to “sorry I hurt your feelings” like some knob who thinks I don’t believe in climate change actually has an impact on my mental health and feelings.

    Player one syndrome is strong with you young padawan, look into that before it gets terminal.

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    • gumnut@aussie.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      You’re missing the point. When you “mine” natural gas and burn it for heat, it’s gone. It disappears (and produces harmful GHG in the process) You have to keep doing this to get more output. When you mine materials for batteries, you end up with a physical thing that persists, can be used over and over and can be recycled into new batteries at end of life. This means the amount of mining required for renewables + batteries is proportional to only the addition of new capacity, whereas the amount of “mining” for fossil fuels is proportional to the total gross energy output (including significant heat losses) We’re mining a lot of battery materials now, but that’s because we’re adding a crapload of capacity.

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      • Arkouda@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Health and Environmental Concerns

        Despite the positive outlooks on battery recycling, negative effects also have been shown to impact developing nations that recycle batteries, especially those with lead and lithium.

        Lead is a highly toxic substance, and processing it can result in pollution and contamination of people, resulting in long-term health problems and even disability.[59][33] According to one ranking, lead-acid battery recycling is, by far, the most deadly industrial process, globally, in terms of Disability-adjusted life years lost—costing between 2,000,000 and 4,800,000 estimated lost years of individual human life.[60]

        Since 2015, developing nations like Vietnam have increased their battery processing capacity as global demand for batteries has grown. The process for recycling batteries often leads to toxic metals being introduced into the environment. In many of these nations, there are little protections available for workers working with the batteries.[3] In nations like Indonesia, it was reported that over a span of four years, battery recycler’s blood lead levels almost doubled.[61] Lead exposure to workers can also be transmitted to family members away from work, ultimately leading to lead poisoning. [62]

        More studies continue to be conducted to gather an understanding of environmental impacts. Studies show that most lithium-ion batteries contain Per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances (PFAS). PFAS accumulates in humans and wildlife, often leading to immune and thyroid disfunctions, liver diseases, and other issues relating to homeostasis inside of the body.[63] Lead contamination of neighborhoods has resulted from the process of recycling lead batteries. In 1992, the EPA reported 29 lead-recycling sites were on the EPA’s Superfund clean-up list, 22 of them on their “National Priority List.”[2]

        en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_recycling#Lithium_i…

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