Mostly because natural gas is a one and done thing when it is used. Batteries can be recycled. Production of natural gas is largely done through racking which destroys the groundwater. While batteries often require mining (excluding mechanical ones), they often can be broken down and reused in new batteries. And of course there is the greenhouse gas emissions from methane that are horrible. Methane is extremely leaky. Methane usage emits about as much greenhouse gas emissions as coal does.
Comment on US grid adds batteries at 10x the rate of natural gas in first half of 2024
Arkouda@lemmy.ca 3 weeks agoSolar/wind + battery storage is cheaper than natural gas and a hell of a lot cleaner. It makes no sense to go for a more expensive, dirtier form of energy.
How exactly is the production of batteries cleaner and cheaper than the production of natural gas?
SeaJ@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
Arkouda@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
I enjoy how much effort it takes to ignore how batteries are produced in order to argue for them in a comparison with natural gas.
SeaJ@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
I enjoy that you are making a strawman. Nobody ever said batteries have no negatives. You asked how they were leaner than natural gas. I answered. Sorry that the answer hurt your feelings.
Arkouda@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
How exactly is the production of batteries cleaner and cheaper than the production of natural gas?
On to your bullshit “answer”:
Mostly because natural gas is a one and done thing when it is used.
Has nothing to do with the production.
Batteries can be recycled.
Nothing to do with base production, again.
Production of natural gas is largely done through racking which destroys the groundwater. While batteries often require mining
Finally! Production!
Oh no… So apparently mining doesn’t impact ground water in anyway? What about nearby rivers? Lakes?
(excluding mechanical ones), they often can be broken down and reused in new batteries.
You already said batteries can be recycled. No shit Shirlocke, doesn’t make the mines have less impact.
And of course there is the greenhouse gas emissions from methane that are horrible.
What about all of the GHG to open and maintain a Lithium mine? Transport of raw Lithium to production lines? The refining of Lithium for use in batteries?
Etc. Etc.
Methane is extremely leaky. Methane usage emits about as much greenhouse gas emissions as coal does.
Yup, that is true. Doesn’t mean that batteries are a “green” alternative when they do just as much damage and use a resource that is far more finite.
I enjoy that you are making a strawman. Nobody ever said batteries have no negatives. You asked how they were leaner than natural gas. I answered. Sorry that the answer hurt your feelings.
I do love how people like you always default to “sorry I hurt your feelings” like some knob who thinks I don’t believe in climate change actually has an impact on my mental health and feelings.
Player one syndrome is strong with you young padawan, look into that before it gets terminal.
knightly@pawb.social 3 weeks ago
Do you want the math or would you prefer less reading and more pictures?
Arkouda@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
Do you want the math or would you prefer less reading and more pictures?
Nothing like an ignoramus to try and make someone else feel stupid for asking a question.
Since you are all knowing, explain to me exactly how deep earth mining is less costly and better for the environment than deep earth drilling.
Or did you think we just magically pull batteries from thin air at 0 cost?
knightly@pawb.social 3 weeks ago
Since you are all knowing, explain to me exactly how deep earth mining is less costly and better for the environment than deep earth drilling.
Easy, just compare the amount of pollution required to make a battery and a solar panel with the amount of pollution required to extract and burn fossil fuels for the equivalent power output over the duration of the renewable’s working lifetime.
Oh, and don’t forget. Fossil fuels are useless without an engine to burn them, so you need to account for those infrastructure costs as well.
Arkouda@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Easy, just compare the amount of pollution required to make a battery and a solar panel with the amount of pollution required to extract and burn fossil fuels for the equivalent power output over the duration of the renewable’s working lifetime.
If it is so easy I am waiting.
mriguy@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
You make the batteries once, and the pollution due to production is spread over the 10-15 year lifetime of the battery. During that time gigawatt hours of clean power sloshes in and out of them. This in contrast to having to produce enough gas to make all of those gigawatt hours once, then throw the gas away as co2 and get more, along with the attendant pollution.
Arkouda@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
Batteries have infinite energy now? No storage issues due to electrical surges, heat, cold, or anything else that makes batteries sub optimal? While seemingly by magic, mining rare earth minerals spreads its environmental impact over 10-15 years of the lifetime of the battery with 0 negative impact to the area the mine is located?
Oh wait… None of that is true so I guess you can try again.
mriguy@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I have no idea what you are trying to say. Batteries have an environmental impact, but so does fracking for natural gas. You have the impact up front making a battery, but charging it with renewables does not have continued environmental impact. But if you use gas, you’re going to have to use an awful lot of it over that time period to offset the clean power you’re able to use when you have a battery. And that gas has a very high environmental impact.
I didn’t say batteries have NO impact, but they have less impact than continually mining and burning fossil fuels.
SeaJ@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
They are using a strawman and trying to claim victory. They are not arguing in good faith.
Arkouda@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
The fact that you believe renewable energy sources have no environmental impact demonstrates to me the need to no longer speak with you. My brain can take only so much ignorance and green washing is my line today.
ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 3 weeks ago
Sodium batteries require very little rare earths in comparison to lithium batteries.
Arkouda@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
It really is too bad about the weak life cycle, poor charge/discharge rate, and incredibly low voltage that begin the story of “Why don’t we just use sodium ion batteries?” and place it directly in the “tragedy” section of the book store.
SeaJ@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
Are you under the impression that we use NMC batteries for grid energy storage?? LOL
Arkouda@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
Sure is weird how you think you are owning me here while ignoring the fact that all batteries have an environmental impact and Lithium is one of the worst when it comes to battery components that are incredibly costly to the environments where it is mined, which is the main component in batteries used for grid storage.
“LOL”