Comment on Question about Australian towns
eureka@aussie.zone 1 month ago
I haven’t really thought about this much, because military commemoration is just normal here and I thoughtlessly assumed it was similar around the world. And I didn’t really consider how unnecessarily big many of them are. Sure, it’s easy for me to point to the US and say ‘that’s what real military worship is!’ but you’re right that there are many reminders of war around, most obviously the monuments in parks and national ceremonies (ANZAC Day, Remembrance Day). You mention that you have a foreign background; do you mention this because the monuments are not normal where your background is, or is it because our wars are offensive and seem atrocious to have statues for?
It’s important to understand the intended purpose of many of these as similar to a gravestone, it’s meant to be a respectful reminder of the town’s loss rather than glorifying war, like Aussiemandeus said it’s the towns wanting future generations to be aware of their town’s sacrifice for the war effort. However, there is also the fact that national ceremonies are sometimes used as propaganda to glorify wars of invasion or imply they were all honourable: the only one of those ANZAC wars where Australia was actually invaded was WWII (various attacks), all the others were joining political allies (first UK, then US) in other continents in imperialist wars, and in many of the wars they were clearly invasive and Australia’s participation should be denounced (including the Korean War, Vietnam War and Middle Eastern conflicts).
So while I can tolerate (critically) the community monuments commemorating dead soldiers, especially those built after WWII when sacrifice was in the self-defense of the country, we must also be critical of those trying to glorify war and imperial conflicts, just as we should be critical of those who glorify or trivialize the colonial invasion of this continent.
guismo@aussie.zone 1 month ago
Thank you for the very neutral answer. I would say it’s the most respectful position I ever heard an Australian saying.
The thing with gravestones is that; 1- They eventually get forgotten. You can’t remember every dead person forever, you can’t remember every war (what about with the aboriginals? why is that forgotten?). No “lest we forget” stuff, and it’s been long enough. 2- Any event related to it is almost always hurtful, said, and can’t be manipulated. You suffer visiting the grave of your loved ones. You don’t celebrate. And you don’t make one in every corner and ignore every other people who died. I have always heard Australians talking about pain regarding remembering, I have never seen anyone or any event even remotely giving that feeling. (RSL with gambling and drinking? whould you do that to remember you dead son?). So as I said before, if there noble intentions with these things, they don’t seem to have ever happened or everything I saw was an exception.
But regardless, it’s a war where you go to kill people. Your intentions are noble and so does the “enemy” thinks as well. I feel uncomfortable with any monuments to that, justified or not. But again, that’s just me. I understand the reasons even if they don’t seem to work in the end to me.
By all means defend yourself you’re invaded. Just never (to me) let you going there to kill the guy who invaded be celebrated.
Nath@aussie.zone 1 month ago
We had a period when I was a kid where the ANZAC stuff really started to wane as the WWI veterans were dying out. Somewhere along the line there was a movement to rekindle the ANZAC stuff and really stress that while it had its roots in WWI, it was about soldiers who died in all conflicts for their country.
Any town that was around in 1918 is going to have a war memorial. I’ve worked at a place that was over 100 years old and they had a shield on a wall remembering the staff who went to WWI. If you really want to find a town that doesn’t have a war memorial, you’ll be looking for a new settlement, Probably some place that didn’t exist before the 1950’s. I honestly can’t think of any.
That said, it’s really easy to avoid all the military stuff if it doesn’t work for you. Most town’s war memorials will only really come into relevance once a year and then go back to just being a feature of the place the other 364 days. A landmark maybe near a kids play ground. Just because every place has one, doesn’t mean you are under any obligation to pay it any attention.
guismo@aussie.zone 1 month ago
Thanks! That seems like a very useful idea and I’ll look into it. I’ll research new towns tomorrow.
The thing is a mental gimnastics. Personally Australian involvement view and involvement with war, very much specially the newer invasions, bother me a lot. I feel guilty living here and my taxes funding an american invasion. To me the fact they get away with it comes from the respect Australians have for the military. But if I do something about it (like going back) I’ll be the only affected and nothing changes. So I want to pretend it’s not true. Live a lie. And if I can find a town without names of it, it’s easier to lie to myself. But if I go to the park and it shows the military worship, I will inevitably remember the truth.
It’s far fetched, but I think it can work.