Comment on What do you think of Ro's decision? Are the Maquis doing the right thing?
Skullgrid@lemmy.world 2 days ago do they have the right to defend themselves when the Cardassians violate the terms that they agreed to and tried to drive them off those worlds?
When you word it like that, they deserve to defend themselves if/when the Cardassians violate the terms of the treaty they reached with the former UFP/Current Cardassian colonists.
Which is the key term here. AFAI remember, they agreed to be subjects of Cardassia, which means the planet belongs to the Cardassians, which means they are probably going to mine the shit out of every natural resource on there.
However, if they have specific details they hammered out with these descendants of native americans, I don’t thing was specified in the episode.
It’s sort of the point of the thread, so it seems a little odd to suddenly try to make it sound silly.
I understand and appriciate that, my point is more that they arrived at “a peace treaty” I don’t know if it was to stop a war, prevent a war or whatever, just that “A peace treaty” was made, and the circumstances are irrelevant to the matter of the right/wrongness of Maquis behaviour.
it is to stop an interplanetary war.
The Federation and the Cardassians were not at war when the treaty was signed…
You really want to split hairs about the fine details of fake politics?
It’s sort of the point of the thread, so it seems a little odd to suddenly try to make it sound silly.
Like, putting a peace treaty at risk presumably would cause a war, or “bad things”. That’s what I mean. The Maquis are putting peace at risk by throwing their tantrum, regardless of how or why the peace treaty was needed.
There was an agreement made with Gul Evek - as you said, for them to be under Cardassian jurisdiction, if not full citizens:
However, that’s not the way things went down:
Those are the events that led to the Maquis as a resistance movement - before that, there were no Maquis, just colonists who stayed behind.
OK… but it very much feels like a protracted escalation that is to lay at the feet at the Colonists refusing the fucking leave, and the Cardassians acting, predictably like assholes.
I mean, this nails the fucking thing on the head. Bill wanted to take advantage of the hard work he did, which is fair. He was warned the Cardassians owned the planet now, and that if he wants to stay safe, he needs to leave, and that the Cardassians are assholes. He says no. Ok. The federations says “Look, we have this treaty, but we aren’t going to do jack to enforce it. You’re on your own”. He says OK. The Cardassians act like assholes. Shock , horror. Now Bill is mad, that the people he was told was going to fuck him over , fucked him over.
Let’s pan over to somewhere else now.
Imagine you are a Cardassian Colonist, and you are working on a terraforming mission. You’ve been on Unnamed Planetopia for 15 years and worked on a mine so that your family in Cardassia could afford a house or fucking whatever. Then, some human asshole bombs your planet with cobalt diselenide, and you gurgle to death as your lungs turn to liquid.
Your Cousin on Bill’s planet hears the news about yet another human acting like shit on an planet owned by Cardassia, and how you , and your entire colony was wiped out by that fearsome maverick, Michael Eddington, and he has enough of that poison to kill every Cardassian in the DMZ.
…fandom.com/…/For_the_Uniform_(episode)
Do you really think that this shit is making things any better for anyone? Does anyone expect Gul Generic to act civilised towards Bill getting in his face when his cousin and the entire fucking colony choked to death in agony?
Obviously, the tales in Star Trek, are morality plays based on things in history. The problem is that the federation is meant to be fair, just and able to provide everything people need.
It boils down to a few ideas :
Personal risk management
The colonists accepted the risk that the Cardassians would treat them unfairly, and the risk came out badly for them. Just like when people go skydiving or rock climbing and sign waivers to accept a personal risk, the colonists accepted the risk that the cardassians would treat them like shit. The federation can try to rescue them, and I’m sure the cardassians would let them flee, but they want to fight, and they fucking ask the federation for assistance. Bruh, fuck off. There are more controversial ways of looking at this, but , if you choose to take risks, don’t act out cry “unfair” when the risks don’t go your way. There are people like this IRL that gamble or make risky choices, and cry foul when it goes sour; it’s part and parcel of that risk. I’m not saying those people shouldn’t be offered assistance after, but insisting on validation that they didn’t make a mistake and to continue whatever lifestyle they want is bullshit.
Post war border settlements and their adjustments to the new borders
In IRL there are places that end up in the “wrong country” due to a settlement post war/conflict/treaty. The well being of those places are almost always dependent on what happens between the two countries in the following years. Some examples can be seen on wikipedia :
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_divided_cities
Some places of note to think about :
One of the weirdes enclave/exclave situations were set up in the border between India and Bangladesh, which literally lead to people dying and services being completely busted and inaccessible to local people. Its exact opposite would be Baarle-(Hertog/Nassau), where due to the Schangen agreement and the peace and co-operation between Belgium and the Netherlands, life in the village is peaceful and largely indifferent to the notions of enclaves and exclaves.
Alsace(–Lorraine) was a disputed territory between france and germany, especially during WW1, and a thorn in the side for negociations for peace. At present, similarly to Baarle, due to the peace between france and germany and the EU, things seem to be going all right for them. Same goes for Tyrol and Austria/Italy. There are contentions, but no one is getting blown up over it.
The “inevitability of the federation”
While this is not something that’s part of IRL, it is an interesting idea I saw in a video :
www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbys9HJvSXA (this fucking things is half an hour long)
Bottom line : The federation is too damn efficient for other cultures to not eventually make peace and trade with it instead of being a pain in their ass. They will inevitably stop wars with you, and start being your allies, one way or the other. It happened to the Klingons, and it “is happening” to
spoiler
the Romulans and the Ferengi.
NB: I am not talking about post burn. Fuck you, I’m not going to cover an entire millenia of fake history.
Eventually, the federation will settle the disputes with cardassia, and establish more amicable relationships with them. Then the DMZ will be pacified, things will get bettter for the inhabitants of planets in and around the DMZ, both federation and cardassian.
But you gotta let go man. Diplomacy can’t continue when you’re polluting entire fucking planets and harming civilians on either side.
I’m tired. What was the question again?
Well yeah, my understanding of the Maquis’ formation of an armed resistance must definitely shouldn’t be taken as an endorsement of everything they did.
All we wanted to know was whether a hot dog is a sandwich…
I don’t know anymore man, it’s a sausage? 😭