Comment on Bethesda Game Studios workers have unionized

• rottingleaf@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  It routinely treats people as things in the employer-employee relationship.

  No. A contract can only be signed by two equal sides. If you mean emotionally and in planning - well, do you treat your employer as people or as that thing, system, which allows you to get money in exchange for work?

  Postcapitalism would consists of various intersecting and overlapping voluntary democratic associations managing their own collectivized means of production.

  Does this mean that such an association is the basic entity? Because any system where a human is not the basic entity is unacceptable for me.

  there would still be a notion of possession of the shared asset

  Specifics? When I leave that voluntary association, what of possessions stops being managed by it? If I enter it with some “means of production” and leave it after some time, with what I leave?

  How does possession of those means overlap between associations?

  Does the described mean that a person can’t have property, but an association can?

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  • jlou@mastodon.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Capitalism puts de facto persons into a thing's legal role. Consenting to a contract doesn't alienate personhood. As labor-sellers, workers are treated as persons. The issue arises with the workers as labor performers. The employees are jointly de facto responsible for using up inputs to produce outputs, but get 0% of property and liabilities for the results of production. Instead, the employer has 100% sole legal responsibility.

    Individuals are the basic entity. Groups' rules vary
    @technology

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    • rottingleaf@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      The issue arises with the workers as labor performers. The employees are jointly de facto responsible for using up inputs to produce outputs, but get 0% of property and liabilities for the results of production. Instead, the employer has 100% sole legal responsibility.

      That’s true, but cooperatives can legally exist where workers share those.

      It’s rather that dynamic of power makes bad behavior advantageous, but what would change this in “simple” anarchism?

      Ancaps imagine aiming for maximal granularity and variability, so that the same kind of abusive behavior wouldn’t fit all cases and rules’ combinations (same as with epidemics) and there’d be market mechanisms functioning due to scale (things generally look better when there are, say, 100 microsofts instead of 1). They assume that those variability and granularity won’t be reduced through open violence (conquering of subduing jurisdictions with differing rules on something) and enforcement of monopolies (trademarks, patents, licenses and such), because of everybody being armed to the teeth and usually there’s still assumed some centralized state which will keep the situation from coming to open violence.

      In case of “simple” anarchism I see contempt for ancap concepts of solving this, but what are the alternatives?

      No anwer is too stupid for me, even new genetically altered humans (I’ve literally encountered an opinion that an anarchist society may require this to make humanity more empathetic, LOL).

      Individuals are the basic entity. Groups’ rules vary

      This doesn’t seem to be different from ancap+panarchy when described so abstractly.

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      • jlou@mastodon.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Cooperatives existing doesn't solve the problem as it doesn't address the violation of inalienable rights in all non-coop firms. Consent doesn't transfer responsibility. The solution is to abolish the employment contract and secure universal self-employment as in a worker coop.

        Markets have a place, but non-market mechanisms and mutual aid should flourish within groups. Ancaps see the logic of exit, but ignore the dual logic of commitment and voice e.g. democracy and social property
        @technology

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