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Comment on Parliament will debate petition: Make lying in the House of Commons a criminal offence - 23rd October 2023

Great idea. Won’t happen though. The ministerial code already has something about this. The get out jail free card (literally) is that you have to prove intent of lying. Knowingly lied. That the key.

You saw how hard it was to get BoJo held to account. Imagine that shit show year round. Opposition will claim MP lied. MP will deny. “I didn’t knowningly lie”. “Yea you did”. And so on and so forth.

The principle is sound. But I can’t help thinking this is like a wrecking ammendment designed so that the sitting government (Tories in this case) say no because it will be deliberately unworkable and then for the opposition parties to go, “oh my days the Tories literally want to lie in parliament boo and hissssssss!!!”.

Would love to see this done properly via independent parliament HR. The stress is on independent and with proper powers and fact checking.

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Syldon@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
You miss a very pertinent point that they must correct the record at the earliest possible time. The ministerial code is also under the discretion of the PM of the day, so will only be put to a committee for discussion if he deems it necessary. This falls short when the PM himself is habitually breaking the code. Sunak as well as his ministers are again following suite by making up figures for the dispatch box, and failing to correct the record when it is pointed out.

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- mannycalavera@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Yeah that’s all good and everything. But when would they correct the record? Could they continue to delay by saying “well at the time I said what I said because I believed it to be the truth!”.
  
  That’s basically what BoJo said for two years.
  
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  - Syldon@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    And Johnson lost out at the first actual investigation.
    
    The problem with Johnson was that it was never allowed to go beyond the verbal criticism phase. He was questioned many times in PMQs regarding his factual statements, and because he was in control of the next part of the process, it never went further than that. Moreso he had the support of the majority of MPs to back him up. Once those MPs realised that this was costing them more votes than they could possibly gain from Johnson, they marked his card. Party politics have always superseded due process when it comes to parliamentary behaviour. The control behind the adjudication needs talking away from the culprits committing the crime.
    
    There has never been anything so egregious in parliament in the way the Tories currently behave though. They are showing little sign of wanting to change back. They are behaving like smug school kids who have used the legal system to get one over on their teachers. It will bite them later on. What they have done will be recorded as a pertinent event to learn from in history. Much like the autopsy that the US will inevitably go through after the Trump trials. That is provided he does not defeat the litigation.
    
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    mannycalavera@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    
    The control behind the adjudication needs talking away from the culprits committing the crime
    
    Fully agree 💯
    
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