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Comment on So is Israel just going to finish Palestine off?

YourPrivatHater@ani.social ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

This is the most reasonable approach, but as seen with the UN, wich as the sum of its parts failed to keep dictatorships out wich now basically control everything but the security Council and the ICJ, its a Utopist approach sadly. There cant be a peace unless Israel takes over Palestine and treats the people that live there now as equal (wich they do already btw, the myth about apartheid is BS there are many Arab Palestinians living in Israel and many went to work in Israel from gaza) but the problem with the surrounding terrorists is another problem.

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Carrolade@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
The claim of Israeli apartheid does not pertain to the status of Israeli Arabs fyi. It pertains to de facto Israeli control of Gaza and the West Bank, where any time they want the IDF can exercise as much control as they want, by virtue of superior firepower.

Hamas, for instance, only persisted because the Israelis allowed it. Israel controlled the majority of access to the regions, and could and did unilaterally police them with military force at will.

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- YourPrivatHater@ani.social ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Yeah shure because Hamas isnt constantly firing rockets into Israel… If there is a defakto control how exactly would the 7th October have happened…
  
  This is just idiotic.
  
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  - Carrolade@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    De facto control does not mean 100% control over every event that happens. People are still humans, and capable of making errors. It is not mind reading/mind control powers, those are still impossible.
    
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    YourPrivatHater@ani.social ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Yeah shure…
    
    Israel has defakto 0 control over Gaza except for the borders normally. Everything inside is controlled by Hamas. And if you think otherwise you have never been there and you don’t know anything about it.
    
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Keeponstalin@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
The Apartheid is very much real, and, while to a much lesser extent than the Palestinian Occupied Territories, also applies to the Palestinian Citizens of Israel

Socio-economic gaps between Palestinian and Jewish Israeli citizens are the result of discriminatory policies pursued over decades. Historically, Israel prevented its Palestinian citizens from accessing livelihoods under its 18-year-long military rule, and used them, at different times, as a source of cheap labour in order to preserve the interests of the Jewish majority. In addition to cruel land seizures, other discriminatory policies have led to Palestinians’ social and economic deprivation: the exclusion of Palestinian localities from high priority areas for development, the discriminatory allocation of land and water for agriculture as well as discriminatory planning and zoning, and the failure to implement major infrastructure development projects in Palestinian communities.

The blockade and Israel’s repeated military offensives have had a heavy toll on Gaza’s essential infrastructure and further debilitated its health system and economy, leaving the area in a state of perpetual humanitarian crisis. Indeed, Israel’s collective punishment of Gaza’s civilian population, the majority of whom are children, has created conditions inimical to human life due to shortages of housing, potable water and electricity, and lack of access to essential medicines and medical care, food, educational equipment and building materials.

Amnesty International Report pg 26-27

Other reports about how Israel is an Apartheid State:

Human Rights Watch Report

B’TSelem Report with quick Explainer
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- YourPrivatHater@ani.social ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  …wikipedia.org/…/Criticism_of_Human_Rights_Watch
  
  …wikipedia.org/…/Criticism_of_Amnesty_Internation…
  
  en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/B'Tselem
  
  I think you might need to read this i won’t read your comment or open those links, your sources are very openly and clearly biased and known to be very antisemitic and to hate Israel. There is nothing to gain from them.
  
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  - Keeponstalin@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Criticism of the Human Rights Abuses of the Israeli State and Anti-zionism are not antisemitism. You are choosing to be willfully ignorant. Israel does NOT represent all Jewish people, nor does their actions. There have been prominent Jewish people extremely critical of Zionism since it’s inception, are you seriously saying they are antisemitic too?
    
    Israel is the one that intentionally conflates the two in order to deflect from criticizm. When Israel commits war crimes, or human rights abuses, or land grabbing, they are the ones that claim they do so for all Jewish people. When Zionist actions are criticized, they call it antisemitic. The conflation of the two is genuinely antisemitic, as the actions of Israel in no way represent all Jewish people.
    
    If you don’t want to be naive, I suggest you read the reports by human rights organizations. They are not antisemitic, unless you think advocates for a Secular Bi-National State with equal rights for both Israelis and Palestinians is also antisemitic, which is insane.
    
    Year before Oct 7 - Jewish Voice for Peace
    
    2023 is ‘deadliest year’ for Palestinian children say human rights groups (Oct 6th)
    
    HRW Events of 2022 and HRW Events of 2023
    
    Reports about how Israel is an Apartheid State:
    
    Amnesty International Report
    
    Human Rights Watch Report
    
    B’TSelem Report with quick Explainer
    
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    YourPrivatHater@ani.social ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Jewish voice for peace is a super left wing anti Israel organization.
    
    New Arab is a shitshow. Also yeah shure the 10k rockets hamas fired from gaza after 7th had a 20% failure rate… They are usually fired from residential areas or sometimes from school/hospitals. So yeah shure many gaza children died. “OH SAVE THE CHILDREN!” they screamed as they murdered children from another religion/ethnicity…
    
    HRW again, im not reading that, i cant even, ive blocked their domains in my DNS due to given reason provided.
    
    Oh and yes i absolutely see a two state solution as absolutely impossible and borderline Antisemitic currently (after 7th October)
    
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Trainguyrom@reddthat.com ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

UN, which… failed to keep dictatorships out

The UN while created with noble intentions certainly fell for the paradox of tolerance. They tolerate the dictatorships and human rights abusers because if they didn’t they’d be much less empowered to take action against them, or worse they’d form their own competing UN made up of nations motivated to join them and you’d just end up with another NATO and Warsaw Pact for example. It’s damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

Ultimately the challenge comes down to how do you ultimately tame the leaders of the world who have absolute power. The founding fathers of America thought they had the solution with democracy and the many checks and balances they implemented into this new form of government they setup, but even that has its challenges and failures that they never could have forseen. The UN was the next experiment, trying to take the similar principles onto the world stage, and it’s been less successful (but at least has had some successes)

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- YourPrivatHater@ani.social ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  The UN while created with noble intentions certainly fell for the paradox of tolerance. They tolerate the dictatorships and human rights abusers because if they didn’t they’d be much less empowered to take action against them, or worse they’d form their own competing UN made up of nations motivated to join them and you’d just end up with another NATO and Warsaw Pact for example. It’s damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
  
  Yes absolutely but the dictatorships and shitshow countries (china for example) keep growing in numbers, if this trend isn’t reversed fast, UN fails as a whole and there is no saving.
  
  It would be better in my opinion to have two options, democratic union and whatever the dictatorships do with each other, because the only thing that united them is being against democracy and Israel. UN, in my personal opinion, already failed as a whole and is beyond saving.
  
  Ultimately the challenge comes down to how do you ultimately tame the leaders of the world who have absolute power. The founding fathers of the United States of America thought they had the solution with democracy and the many checks and balances they implemented into this new form of government they setup, but even that has its challenges and failures that they never could have forseen.
  
  The big part of a government is, that it has power to enforce whatever it decides, UN gladly does not have any meaningful power, Israel would be gone by now otherwise.
  
  The UN was the next experiment, trying to take the similar principles onto the world stage, and it’s been less successful (but at least has had some successes)
  
  Well those successes slowly but steadily crumble away, the most institutions have failed, WHO is doing its job only half assed (especially the making shure hospital aren’t used as military bases) the human rights Council is majorly filled with people that think human rights are shit and only need to apply it when it fits against the west or Israel specifically, the General Assembly is almost the same. (fun fact, the day of the Russian attack on Ukraine the general assembly voted about condemning Israel for something… Again. Most resolutions are against Israel.) Oh and the entire UNHWR wich is definitely more than partially responsible for hamas doing what they do.
  
  UN isn’t even a diplomatic forum anymore.
  
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