Comment on „If companies were to do the right thing, they would lose the most valuable customers on earth, preteen kids”

• areyouevenreal@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  If I ever go as far in the relationship area as to have kids, they are not going to have anything Apple\Android until they can think for themselves.

  That’s actually not unreasonable.

  That would be 12 years old or so at least, and before that they’d have to pass an exam (with me evaluating) on how to write simple Unix shell scripts, set up a web server, write simple SQL queries and, well, install and set up the system on which they are going to do this first. Non-computer parts would probably involve some media literacy and symbolic logic. And I think control theory would be required.

  What does any of that have to do with media literacy or using those devices? You are just being a curmudgeon, not everyone needs to be a systems administrator. Unix isn’t even used anymore. Linux and the BSDs are Unix-like, not actual Unix. What if your kids are physicists, chemists, or mathematicians? Are you going to say they aren’t good enough to use a fucking smartphone just because they don’t know specific things about a certain specific area of tech? How do you know SQL specifically will even be relevant then? NoSQL is already making headway.

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  • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Unix isn’t even used anymore. Linux and the BSDs are Unix-like, not actual Unix.

    That’s still called Unix shell scripts even on Linux. Also it is used, Solaris and AIX - sometimes rarely, and BSDs are Unix unless you are a lawyer.

    What if your kids are physicists, chemists, or mathematicians?

    They still can spend a few hours on something useful for life. I know hundreds of little things like this from various areas even less useful specifically for me. While this is useful for everyone, as we can see every day from normies not knowing how anything in computing works and getting scammed.

    And of course this is insufficient to be a systems administrator.

    Are you going to say they aren’t good enough to use a fucking smartphone just because they don’t know specific things about a certain specific area of tech?

    No, that it’s dangerous for them without some knowledge and feeling of how computers work. That’s not to become a specialist, that’s just to feel things right.

    How do you know SQL specifically will even be relevant then? NoSQL is already making headway.

    Can do any of that. That’s not about preparing someone for a job.

    This isn’t how you get people into Open Source software or interested in technology. You can’t do it by forcing them to do things that are esoteric to the majority of people.

    This is about upbringing and introducing people to things they can’t avoid. Not about making them interested (but I’m almost confident that actually it will make a kid interested).

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    • areyouevenreal@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      The shell used on most Linux is bash, a GNU project. Not a part of Research Unix. ZSH is newer than both Unix and BASH and is also not a part of Unix.

      They still can spend a few hours on something useful for life. I know hundreds of little things like this from various areas even less useful specifically for me. While this is useful for everyone, as we can see every day from normies not knowing how anything in computing works and getting scammed.

      None of this is going to stop someone getting scammed. You can have plenty of technical knowledge and still get scammed. I got scammed trying to sell a laptop for example. Teaching them how paypal works and to avoid using the friends and family option is much better for this purpose.

      This is about upbringing and introducing people to things they can’t avoid. Not about making them interested (but I’m almost confident that actually it will make a kid interested).

      You very much can avoid using a Unix shell. Your average Windows user has never used one, and neither do most macOS people even though it’s included with macOS. Likewise most people will never have to setup a web server.

      If you want to give people practical skills start with adblockers and how to reinstall Windows, macOS, and Linux Mint if it goes wrong. If you want to teach them command line skills, maybe start with CMD and PowerShell, since they are more likely to see those in real life than Solaris or FreeBSD. Heck your average person probably needs a Virtual Machine or an emulator more than a web server. Being able to pirate and play old Nintendo games or Play Station 1/2 is pretty cool. So is running Windows stuff on mac or Linux. Could save them buying another PC for that one computer. Likewise learning to work on desktop and laptop PCs can save them buying a new one every few years. Especially useful for PC gamers.

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      • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        And GNU utilities were obviously used a lot on Unices and when Linux didn’t yet exist. Also bash is more or less similar to Korn shell, which was used earlier than you may think. And also zsh, despite people perceiving it as very modern, is older than you may think.

        Anyway, if a program written for Unix works on a Unix clone, it doesn’t cease being a Unix program. POSIX was a standard for Unix.

        I don’t get what are you arguing for. Especially since I meant bourne shell scripts, not bash scripts.

        You very much can avoid using a Unix shell. Your average Windows user has never used one, and neither do most macOS people even though it’s included with macOS. Likewise most people will never have to setup a web server.

        I’ve said once that I want to give a taste of something. I was more general with things one can’t avoid, as in “one can’t avoid computers and the Internet”. And this was pretty clear from the context, either you are playing dumb or you want to defeat someone in an argument, in the latter case I don’t care because I see you are not doing that.

        A taste of real things I’d want to give to help them connect their inner abstract idea of how the world works with actual material things. They will have that idea, I absolutely trust every person to develop that on their own without help. Without that they might not believe themselves when they should.

        None of this is going to stop someone getting scammed. You can have plenty of technical knowledge and still get scammed. I got scammed trying to sell a laptop for example. Teaching them how paypal works and to avoid using the friends and family option is much better for this purpose.

        See previous.

        If you want to give people practical skills start with adblockers and how to reinstall Windows, macOS, and Linux Mint if it goes wrong.

        I don’t want them to hate computing. This will lead to that exactly. Especially PowerShell.

        Anyway, see that same paragraph.

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• letsgo@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  That’s a great plan! Do be sure to let us all know how it goes.

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  • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Well, that won’t be soon, but the closest thing I’ve had to that - went well.

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• BigPotato@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  Shoot man, you gotta think about it the other way. Show them a mobile game, show them the prices, then turn around and show them purchasing power.

  For instance, Animal Crossing Pocket Camp. Cute, aimed at kids, horrible leaf ticket practices. Broke down the pricing of one set and for the cost of ACNL and a 2DSXL - you’ve got something like a 0.8% chance of getting the whole set.

  So, show that to a kid, do you want a 0.8% chance of having this set or a whole Game and System?

  Granted, this was a while back - the price of those two together probably gets you a 2% chance these days.

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  • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    I was thinking of showing that on MMORPGs.

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