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Comment on please defederate from exploding-heads.com and rammy.site

As usual, I have typed 500 words when 50 will do, and for that I apologize.

Go to those instances and read what’s there

No, I do not care to and why would you do that? You already have determined it’s not right for you. Any alleged content problem that you have to see by going there would, if true, be a problem there. Does that make it a problem here? If I have to take extraordinary steps here to see it here, isn’t that on me? Isn’t the apparatus doing what it is supposed to be doing if I seek out a thing and find it?

The ultimate measure of freedom is the freedom to abstain. (Nobody is forcibly opting us in to reading their content.)

I’m just a regular user of SDF so these things aren’t up to me, but I would think that it would take more than “because it exists.” Defederation and Federation shouldn’t be used to signal alignment and nonalignment of expression, but for reasons of managing the network itself. A telephone company provides service to everyone and doesn’t care what you do with your phone. But, if someone is using it in a way that disrupts the network itself or others’ ability to use the network, the telephone company should act to protect the overall integrity of the network. Even then it wouldn’t silence the speech because of the speech, but because of the network.

Their instance continues to exist without us, their free speech continues, but by remaining federated we are giving them a platform.

Look, it’s one thing to be put off by someone going out of their way to affront you. It’s another to feel affronted after going out of your way to find if there is something objectionable anywhere. By that logic, since you have found something then defederation alone should not be enough, as “we are giving them a platform” still, because other people might visit there directly instead of through federation. Therefore, due to that situation, they should not have an DNS entry so you work on their Registrar to “deplatform” them. Then, because someone can connect using an IP address, their ISP should disconnect their service or else they’re providing their ISP as a platform. But as they can get another ISP in this day of mobile connectivity, you could chase down their power company, yes, because their power company is a platform – as is their landlord – as is their employer. And so on.

I remain unconvinced.

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Artemis@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
You could write 5000 words and I doubt they would change their views. Still I certainly enjoyed reading your words. Best regards.

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Shikadi@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

No, I do not care to and why would I?

Let’s not be like Reddit and comment essays without reading the article. That’s why. You don’t even know what you’re arguing for if you don’t look at it.

If I have to take extraordinary steps here to see it here, isn’t that on me? Isn’t the apparatus doing what it is supposed to be doing if I seek out a thing and find it?

It’s been all over my all feed personally, maybe you just don’t pay attention to where content is coming from?

going out of your way to find if there is something objectionable anywhere

See above

because other people might visit there directly instead of through federation

See above

Therefore, due to that situation, they should not have an DNS entry so you work on their Registrar to “deplatform” them.

No, I believe the internet is the utility. Unless actual crimes are being committed, they can have their websites. The key difference here is lemmy.sdf.org is relaying the posts from its own server, and therefore participating in spreading harmful disinformation. It’s not like a telephone company that lets anyone call, it’s like a newspaper that published anyone’s articles, or a bulletin board at the library that doesn’t moderate what’s there.

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- funchords@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  
  No, I do not care to and why would I?
  
  If you are going to quote me, quote me. Do not edit my quotes.
  
  Let’s not be like Reddit and comment essays without reading the article. That’s why. You don’t even know what you’re arguing for if you don’t look at it.
  
  Your article is the article. Your story is you read something somewhere about these sites, not from the sites. You passed it along, later checking and finding that some of the first facts were wrong (which is fine, that happens), but that you still think there were problems here. Perhaps, even bigger problems here.
  
  I don’t need to visit any other sites to hold the principal that federation or defederation is about network management, not the views or viewpoints of the content. Not whether the content is right or wrong or factual or not, but whether it impacts the federation itself.
  
  If I was in charge of network or systems management here, my main concern with all of this would be that rammy.site is reportedly without any moderation/administration. But I’m just a user here, and it seems that you are too. You’ve said your bit, I’ve said mine, and we both been cordial about it.
  
  You should keep talking about this if you remain interested in it, but I’m moving on. I just wanted to voice my view that the reason I joined this instance was because it was widely federated and not involved in what was going on at beehaw.
  
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  - Shikadi@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I literally don’t know how the quote got messed up, I copied and pasted 🤷 I have no idea what’s going on at beehaw. lemmy.ml defederated from rammy.site
    
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    gt24@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    
    I have no idea what’s going on at beehaw.
    
    Specifically answering this thought…
    
    Beehaw is the “Aspiring to be(e) a safe, friendly and diverse place.” More information is available on their site at beehaw.org but below is a summary as far as I know it.
    
    Quoting from their main page on the right side…
    
    We’re a collective of individuals upset with the way social media has been traditionally governed. A severe lack of moderation has led to major platforms like Facebook to turn into political machinery focused on disinformation campaigns as a way to make profit off of users.
    
    That policy is reflected on how that instance operates. They are known to be an instance that has defederated with a very large amount of other instances due to policies that those instances have as well as other things such as allowing anyone to register for an account without account approval first. (A listing is at this link and the instances they are block are under the Bl column.)
    
    The defederating from a place because it has open registrations means that Beehaw defederated from the largest Lemmy instances due to that (referring to lemmy.world). The concern is that open registration may let undesirable people register and they do not want to federate with an instance that would condone that. If they kept the federation intact, any users “openly registering” over there could just participate on Beehaw. Beehaw prefers that their participants are vetted by someone first.
    
    lemmy.sdf.org/post/66921
    
    As such, Beehaw’s policy is to have a more isolated instance where they only interoperate with instances which are compatible with their overall mission statement. Some users prefer that and seek them out specifically for that. Other users are turned off by such things and find other instances to host their account.
    
    Fortunately, you are able to create an account with whatever instance you want and migrate over to that new instance. Unfortunately, your account information cannot migrate over there (since Lemmy does not support that). Still, you should have account on an instance where you feel the most comfortable and then you can subscribe to communities across the Fediverse that interest you (assuming, of course, that your instance is not blocking them or is being blocked by them).
    
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