I am down with this and even some more, except regarding having to pay for interpreters after 3 years. Working folks are hardly going to have the time to learn a whole ass language to proficiency in just 3 years, especially with kids to take care of
Comment on Building bombings and 14-year-old hitmen: Organized crime overwhelms Sweden
stoy@lemmy.zip 2 months ago
Swede here, shit is BAD, but this is relative to how things used to be before this shit started, so in relative global terms Sweden is still a damn good place to live.
That being said, this behavior should be seen as a warning to not take culture clashes lightly.
I am sure I am going to catch a lot of heat for this, but damn it, it needs to be said.
The gangs we see are a direct result of a terribly run migration policy.
We have taken in far, far, far too many migrants in a way, way, way too short ammount of time.
This combined with a integration policy that keeps failing over and over as we continously refuse to enforce even the most basic attempt by migrants to integrate. There are many migrants who has lived in Sweden for many years without speaking either Swedish or English, they still have a right to free interpretors when dealing with doctors and government services, this is fucking mental.
We have punnishments and laws fitting Swedes from the 1960s or so, they don’t do shit against the modern gangs.
So what needs to be done?
Start actually deporting criminals, log their DNA and give them a lifetime ban on returning, check all migrants against this database.
To those born in Sweden, start instituting extra long prison terms for criminals who keep reoffending.
Enforce learning the Swedish language and check compliance with in-person tests, and mandatory lessons. If you need an interpreter after 3 years, you have to pay for it yourself.
Ifera@lemmy.world 2 months ago
franglais@lemm.ee 2 months ago
I moved to France,not able to speak a word, and within 3 years, I was working in a french only environment. It’s difficult, and I won’t pretend that everyone had my luck, and opportunities,but it’s not unreasonable either.
Valmond@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I needed over 10 yeara before I was able to communicatd “OK”, 20 to be fluent in French.
Everyone isn’t a language god like you.
Croquette@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
If you are fully immersed in another language, it shouldn’t take 10 years to have a coversational skill level. It’s on you.
Ifera@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Good for you, but an older person, especially near retiring age would not be able to pick up a language that quickly normally. Especially with the depth required to handle complex legal or medical matters, while also working full time just to make ends meet. And if on top of that, they are taking care of kids, which is a very common scenario for older migrants, that seems like too much of a stretch.
franglais@lemm.ee 2 months ago
No, it’s very difficult to change habits as you get older, but the hardest thing is to put yourself out there, and not be afraid of making mistakes, and actually put in the monumental effort required to integrate. Older people who I have met, are more likely to find a bubble of people who speak the same language. I was lucky, I was only 28 when I arrived, and my wife is french, hence why I am lucky.
Zuberi@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
Crazy how fucking over the rest of the world will bring them to you regardless…
This is dripping with racism
stoy@lemmy.zip 2 months ago
How has Sweden fucked over the rest of the world?
Zuberi@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
stoy@lemmy.zip 2 months ago
This happened in the 1600-1700s in Europe, I am not sure that this is relates to our issues with gangs today.
But fine, how would you solve the issue with gangs in Sweden?
rottingleaf@lemmy.zip 2 months ago
No, saying that Swedish integration policies suck while it has taken more immigrants than it should is fine.
So are solutions, only it’s a bit cruel to do that now to people already living in Sweden for many years.
So maybe enforcing learning the language (with maybe some cultural basics course) is fine, but deportations should come like 5+ years later.
stoy@lemmy.zip 2 months ago
Deportations, as in after commiting a crime, should be on the table instantly for violent crimes commited by migrants.
Note that I am not talking about general deportations of normal, well adjusted migrants, but migrants commiting violent crimes.
As for language and culture classes, we allready offer them for free to all migrants, Svenska För Invandrare, it is however critisized for only offering low quallity classes, which is a big problem that needs to be adressed.
ZC3rr0r@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
My wife signed on for SFI after she moved, and found that the level and expectations were so low she had difficulty staying engaged with the classes and course material.
She looked into private tutoring and was fluent in Swedish in 4 months, and ended up teaching Swedish to highschool aged kids after just 2.5 years.
To this day she wonders if SFI wasn’t secretly designed to push anyone with any kind of ambition out of the system.
I personally think it’s a case of bigotry of low expectations, but it’s clear it really doesn’t work for the intended purpose.
stoy@lemmy.zip 2 months ago
This tracks with what I have heard about it, and also tracks with my expectations of the Swedish government in cases like these, they dumb it down to the lowest possible standard to get good stats on the usage and success rate of it.
rottingleaf@lemmy.zip 2 months ago
OK, no disagreement.
Geth@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
Wait, why would anyone have the right to free interpreters at any time? That sounds like such a waste of public resources and like you said, enables people to never even try to learn the language.
stoy@lemmy.zip 2 months ago
As an initial concept, it is resonable to help people get the care they need even if they don’t speak the language, but after 5 years of working to live here you should be expected to be able to communicate without an interpreter, even if it is not fluent.