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Sanctus@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

• toofpic@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Oh, come on, I live in Copenhagen and cycle daily, but even there, cars are not going anywhere. Smelly-smokey cars, yes, but not cars in general.

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  • n2burns@lemmy.ca ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Cars aren’t being eliminated completely, but we can reduce their usage significantly if we look to your home city as an example. In Copenhagen, only 44% of commutes are made by car. In the Bay Area, probably the car-centric area of California, 85% of commutes are by car (I removed the 33% WFH, so 58/67=85%).

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    • toofpic@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Yes, it does work, and it feels nice there. Though a large part of it is not about improving other ways of transportation, but about creating problems for car-owners.
      So, “greater good” and all, but the situation is far from perfect even here, and people have a long way ahead, to create infrastructures where people also feel good, but not because someone is “getting punished for bad behaviour”

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  • Sanctus@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    What is the argument here? Cars are here to stay forever and ever? Most daily commuters could get used to a train. It is possible for most people to live without a car, your city was just designed in a way that requires you to.

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    • abhibeckert@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Most daily commuters could get used to a train

      It’s definitely not “most”. You have to live and work near a train station for that to be viable option.

      In Copenhagen, which has a wonderful transit network, trains still only cover 39% of traffic. And I assure you the other 61% is not cycling or walking.

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    • bassomitron@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      So what’s more practical, slowly replacing all ICE cars or completely redesigning entire cities, bulldozing large metro blocks to reconfigure and rebuild?

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      • n2burns@lemmy.ca ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        A little column A, a little column B. Mostly, we can have gentle changes to our cities, like removing Single-Family Home and other exclusionary zoning, removing mandatory parking minimums, as well other initiatives to encourage higher density, mixed-use buildings, and active transportation usage.

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      • Sanctus@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        As I just commented. How many individuals can drive cars before congestion makes it impossible? 10 million people? 20? 30? The I-10 and 101 stack interchange is already a fucken mess that can’t be expanded. How do you handle exponentially more drivers on the road each year?

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    • heyitsmikey128@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      That’s the point, we can’t exactly just resign a city from the ground up to work with public transit especially when it’s not being pushed for by the majority

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      • Sanctus@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Yes but what is the alternative? Can civilians all have their own car when 10 million live in a city? What about 30 million? 100? It stops making sense the more people you have. And on top of that suppliers and transportation services use the same road, too. It is already like flying through the death star out here with half the road being eaten by transportation companies.

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  • Tattorack@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I dunno, man. I think it’s about time Copenhagen takes a good look at how The Netherlands has been doing things the past decade. Cycling infrastructure can do with a serious upgrade around here, and The Netherlands has proven that, yes, you totally can reduce the number of cars on the street.

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    • sndrtj@feddit.nl ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      As a Dutch resident, I seriously disagree here. We are just coming out of a 15 year long neoliberal period that has caused the following:

      • public transport costs just went up 12% in January, whereas they are going down in surrounding countries
      • the total amount of minutes of disruptions with the largest rail company has gone up by five-fold over the last 10 years, and no sign of abating
      • the high speed rail line was taken out of service completely at the beginning of this month.
      • peripheral areas have increasingly less access to public transport and other services. Everything gets centralized to Amsterdam.
      • the local tram network in The Hague is downsizing in March due to lack of personnel. And the trams are already completely full in rush hour.

      All these things are having the effect of pushing people IN cars, because the alternative is getting more expensive for reduced service. Heck, road congestion is significantly up from pre-pandemic levels and that’s with the neoliberals investing billions upon billions in new asphalt.

      Not Just Bikes is in a bubble, and it’s seriously irritating to have foreigners believe we’re this utopia.

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      • Tattorack@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        I’m Dutch/Danish. Not so much a foreigner as you think. And the prices for public transport are increasing over here as well. Has to do with market inflation… Or so I’ve been told by my roommate who works for DSB’s IT department.

        The alternatives are bicycles, not cars. If people are choosing cars instead, despite living in a flat country with bike lanes everywhere, then the problem isn’t the infrastructure.

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    • toofpic@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      It’s not the time to brag that The Netherlands have a better cycling infrastructure (that is actually debatable), the comment was about cars “going away completely”.
      Yes, I don’t have a personal car, but recently I needed to haul a dining table and 6 chairs into my apartment. It took a Berlingo and two hours, and it would be a complete circus number even with a cargobike.

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• AA5B@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I do keep hoping one of these will succeed though: we have many different things that move and need multiple solutions to kick our fossil fuel habit.

  Walkable cities with train systems are ideal but will take decades to build out, plus at least in the US, we have predictions of people moving away from cities

  Battery seems to have won best technology for personal transportation, whether scooters, bikes cars

  But what about all those trucks, aircraft, construction and farming equipment, shipping, military vehicles? That’s a lot of fossil fuel usage with no solution in sight

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• lung@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  clearly never lived in a rural setting

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  • Sanctus@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I’m clearly talking about cities. Where most people live.

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    • VampyreOfNazareth@lemm.ee ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Where most people think their food supply line is invincible.

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      • Sanctus@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Rural communites still use their space inefficiently. You dont need a mile between houses. Natural resource generation takes no personal freedoms into account, nor does it take human comfort. We have one pie to share until the sun explodes. Best figure out how to share it.

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