Interesting, my main takeaways aren’t quite the same as yours! I can see what you describe too, but I would have summarized it very differently. I didn’t see Evelyn’s character growth and internal acceptance as a primary part of the film so much as a necessary story step in becoming the philosophical foil of Joy. I’m guessing Joy’s arc is what you mean by the other really heavy point.
One thing I’ve noticed with this movie is that people experience it in very different ways, it resonates with a lot of people but there’s a lot of variation in what exactly they get from it and how they interpret its message. It’s really impressive how they were able to make it as universally enjoyable as they did, bringing together so many different themes coherently.
Piers@beehaw.org 11 months ago
There’s certainly lots of things going on in the film and since they aren’t expressed in a heavy handed way there’s lots of space left for people to find meaning for themselves there.
I would say that the journey of the central protagonist(s) is always a primary part of any good film though.
While it is a significant element I’m not sure that Joy’s arc itself is really a core part of “what the movie is about” so much as how that impacts other characters. We only experience that narrative through how Evelyn experiences what happens with Joy.
To my mind that is much more about an exploration of feeling like you are losing someone you care about and about the experience of trying to support someone you care about through an self-destructive crisis.
Though I do think that Joy’s story is interesting in its own right, the fact that it is framed from another characters frame of reference indicates to me that the primary takeaway is intended to be about having a relationship with someone going through what Joy is going through rather than Joy’s journey itself.
That said, it’s also the case that largely Joy is wrestling with the same issues as Evelyn but from a different perspective and so that contrast is valuable in highlighting what is going on and also gives people who are more easily able to relate to Joy than Evelyn (perhaps because their own life more resembles one than the other) a way into the same sorts of themes.
CloverSi@lemmy.comfysnug.space 11 months ago
Great analysis! Once again I see it differently but it’s always cool to hear other perspectives.
I would agree that the protagonist’s journey is often a primary part of a good film, but it’s far from always the primary part of a good film. To me Evelyn and her arc filled a role closer to Will Turner in Pirates of the Caribbean, or whats-his-face (the main guy, not Fred Rogers) from A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood. They’re the focal point of the story and are what drive it forward, but even though they have the most screentime the most interesting thing about them is their interaction with a ‘side’ character as a foil. While everything you describe regarding Evelyn and trying to support someone you care about are undoubtedly significant parts of the movie, they’re not what make the movie stand out to me, and not what I would use to describe the ‘point’ of it.
Like you said, Joy and Evelyn wrestling with similar issues creates a great dynamic, where each offer different perspectives and challenges to the other. Where it sounds like you found Joy and her role in the movie to be more of a support in the main story of Evelyn’s journey, to me Evelyn’s side of things was more the lens through which to view the central story of the everything bagel. I see Evelyn’s progression as being metaphor for how depression and nihilism creep in. Every part of her journey is another way you keep trying to fight it off, either internally or as help from loved ones, but things keep escalating no matter what you do until you end up at the bagel. The everything bagel’s appearance and the Joy/Jobu reveal is the realization of what’s been happening. From there it’s less about the characters and more just the fundamental fight between the parts of us that can see a way of existing in the world and the parts of us that can’t, whether those parts come from within or from loved ones.
To be clear I’m not trying to imply what you wrote is wrong in any way; I just thought it was interesting how, if I was asked to describe the movie’s point, I would have given an answer more about the overall story and bagel-adjacent stuff than Evelyn’s character arc. Our own experiences with the subject matter of the movie no doubt color our interpretations of what parts seem more ‘important’ than others. We can both be right :)